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replacement for 80286

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    #31
    Originally posted by Eudimorphodon View Post
    Here's a page that has a picture of a prototype/sample 386sx "upgrade option" chip in a 286 compatible PGA package. Apparently Intel at least *considered* selling such an upgrade chip that didn't require a carrier.
    hello
    i have a 286->386sx , small board. (don't know if it works) But i would not say this card has close to no chips glued on .

    -front-.JPG -back-.JPG

    /cimonvg

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by Cimonvg View Post
      hello
      i have a 286->386sx , small board. (don't know if it works) But i would not say this card has close to no chips glued on .

      [ATTACH=CONFIG]59932[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]59933[/ATTACH]

      /cimonvg
      That's really cool looking. Do you have a machine to test that on?

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by AndyM1981 View Post
        That's really cool looking. Do you have a machine to test that on?
        hello - yes an unassembled IBM AT. Some time ago i did try the MakeIt486 chip in the IBM-at, and at very slow speed did boot Windows 95. ..very slow.. The memory is on the ISA bus and the overall speed not high.
        /cimonvg

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by Cimonvg View Post
          But i would not say this card has close to no chips glued on .
          Heh. I'm going to hazard a guess that the logic is to double the host CPU clock so the 386sx runs at closer to its rated clock speed. (And also to support the FPU socket?) I do vaguely remember once reading a review of 386sx upgrade boards (PC Magazine?) that featured at least one board that didn't do that. It's amazing to contemplate what it'd be like to have an original 6mhz AT with one of those installed.
          My Retro-computing YouTube Channel (updates... eventually?): Paleozoic PCs Also: Blogspot

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Eudimorphodon View Post
            Heh. I'm going to hazard a guess that the logic is to double the host CPU clock so the 386sx runs at closer to its rated clock speed. (And also to support the FPU socket?) I do vaguely remember once reading a review of 386sx upgrade boards (PC Magazine?) that featured at least one board that didn't do that. It's amazing to contemplate what it'd be like to have an original 6mhz AT with one of those installed.
            Hello
            i did some tests.
            AMD286-6mhz - to compare against:

            DSCN9159.JPG
            ;Data collected by: TOPBENCH | Benchmark and detection stub | Version 0.97
            ;This file contains fingerprinting information about your computer. Please
            ;email this file to trixter@oldskool.org with a subject line of "Benchmark" to
            ;help test these routines and seed the TOPBENCH database.

            [UIDF102A099F]
            MemoryTest=924
            OpcodeTest=398
            VidramTest=779
            MemEATest=515
            3DGameTest=386
            Score=16
            CPU=Intel 80286
            CPUspeed=8 MHz
            BIOSinfo=R(C)1985-1989, American Megatrends Inc,.All Rights Reserved.1346 Oakbrook Drive, Suite-120, Norcross, GA-30093. Phone-(404)-263-8181. (04/30/89, rev. 0)
            MachineModel=01FC
            BIOSdate=19890430
            BIOSCRC16=F102
            VideoSystem=VGA
            VideoAdapter=VGA, Paradise PVGA1A, 8-Bit-Video, 8-Bit-ROMfixed-sync, 512kb Vi
            Machine=AT clone

            and the MakeIt486 (no cache enabled):

            DSCN9151.JPG
            ;Data collected by: TOPBENCH | Benchmark and detection stub | Version 0.97
            ;This file contains fingerprinting information about your computer. Please
            ;email this file to trixter@oldskool.org with a subject line of "Benchmark" to
            ;help test these routines and seed the TOPBENCH database.

            [UIDF1026E7]
            MemoryTest=769
            OpcodeTest=372
            VidramTest=787
            MemEATest=491
            3DGameTest=358
            Score=18
            CPU=Cyrix/TI 486-class processor
            CPUspeed=33 MHz
            BIOSinfo=R(C)1985-1989, American Megatrends Inc,.All Rights Reserved.1346 Oakbrook Drive, Suite-120, Norcross, GA-30093. Phone-(404)-263-8181. (04/30/89, rev. 0)
            MachineModel=01FC
            BIOSdate=19890430
            BIOSCRC16=F102
            VideoSystem=VGA
            VideoAdapter=VGA, Paradise PVGA1A, 8-Bit-Video, 8-Bit-ROMfixed-sync, 512kb Vi
            Machine=AT clone

            and at last the "new" Nokia-module:
            DSCN9164.JPG
            ;Data collected by: TOPBENCH | Benchmark and detection stub | Version 0.97
            ;This file contains fingerprinting information about your computer. Please
            ;email this file to trixter@oldskool.org with a subject line of "Benchmark" to
            ;help test these routines and seed the TOPBENCH database.

            [UIDF102920]
            MemoryTest=1048
            OpcodeTest=396
            VidramTest=771
            MemEATest=527
            3DGameTest=401
            Score=16
            CPU=AMD Am386SX
            CPUspeed=8 MHz
            BIOSinfo=R(C)1985-1989, American Megatrends Inc,.All Rights Reserved.1346 Oakbrook Drive, Suite-120, Norcross, GA-30093. Phone-(404)-263-8181. (04/30/89, rev. 0)
            MachineModel=01FC
            BIOSdate=19890430
            BIOSCRC16=F102
            VideoSystem=VGA
            VideoAdapter=VGA, Paradise PVGA1A, 8-Bit-Video, 8-Bit-ROMfixed-sync, 512kb Vi
            Machine=AT clone

            ..i had to build some socket extensions , but after i firm pressure the Nokia-module did connect to the motherboard
            DSCN9160.JPG

            The speed of this "new" (a call it new - i have never used it before ) nokia-module is not doubled. But the feeling , when used in PCDOS is better then the MakeIt486 (without cache enabled) !!
            /cimonvg

            Comment


              #36
              Wow, the scores for that Make-it 486 module are astoundingly bad.

              I have to admit I'm jealous of your 8mhz 386sx now.
              My Retro-computing YouTube Channel (updates... eventually?): Paleozoic PCs Also: Blogspot

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Eudimorphodon View Post
                Wow, the scores for that Make-it 486 module are astoundingly bad.

                I have to admit I'm jealous of your 8mhz 386sx now.
                That is only because the cache is turned off. Superior performing chip doesn't do much work if spending all the time waiting on motherboard memory.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by krebizfan View Post
                  That is only because the cache is turned off. Superior performing chip doesn't do much work if spending all the time waiting on motherboard memory.
                  Certainly true, but I guess I expected at least a *little* more of a goose from having the actual instruction-executing hardware running at 33mhz, since most instructions on the 286/386sx take a significant number of cycles. Maybe the instruction mix in Topbench just happens to be particularly bus-bound.

                  How does it score with the cache enabled?
                  My Retro-computing YouTube Channel (updates... eventually?): Paleozoic PCs Also: Blogspot

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by Eudimorphodon View Post
                    Certainly true, but I guess I expected at least a *little* more of a goose from having the actual instruction-executing hardware running at 33mhz, since most instructions on the 286/386sx take a significant number of cycles. Maybe the instruction mix in Topbench just happens to be particularly bus-bound.

                    How does it score with the cache enabled?
                    hello
                    in the Topbench database , there is a 80286 Bridgeboard with MakeIt 486, doing Score=23
                    but i will post my score (if/when i get the correct makeit486 driver and the makeit486 on the motherboard)
                    /cimonvg

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by Cimonvg View Post
                      hello
                      in the Topbench database , there is a 80286 Bridgeboard with MakeIt 486, doing Score=23
                      but i will post my score (if/when i get the correct makeit486 driver and the makeit486 on the motherboard)
                      /cimonvg
                      That seems rather low, too. I also get a score of 23 on my Compaq DeskPro 286/12. Could be they ran without the cache enabled as well? BTW, your 80286 is 8 MHz as evidenced by the 16 MHz crystal and benchmark results, not 6 MHz as you labeled it. Not a big deal, I wasn't sure you were aware of it or not.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by resman View Post
                        That seems rather low, too. I also get a score of 23 on my Compaq DeskPro 286/12. Could be they ran without the cache enabled as well? BTW, your 80286 is 8 MHz as evidenced by the 16 MHz crystal and benchmark results, not 6 MHz as you labeled it. Not a big deal, I wasn't sure you were aware of it or not.
                        Hello, you are wright - it sould say amd286-8mhz.
                        /cimonvg

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by Cimonvg View Post
                          Hello
                          i did some tests.
                          AMD286-6mhz - to compare against:

                          [ATTACH=CONFIG]59999[/ATTACH]
                          ;Data collected by: TOPBENCH | Benchmark and detection stub | Version 0.97
                          ;This file contains fingerprinting information about your computer. Please
                          ;email this file to trixter@oldskool.org with a subject line of "Benchmark" to
                          ;help test these routines and seed the TOPBENCH database.

                          [UIDF102A099F]
                          MemoryTest=924
                          OpcodeTest=398
                          VidramTest=779
                          MemEATest=515
                          3DGameTest=386
                          Score=16
                          CPU=Intel 80286
                          CPUspeed=8 MHz
                          BIOSinfo=R(C)1985-1989, American Megatrends Inc,.All Rights Reserved.1346 Oakbrook Drive, Suite-120, Norcross, GA-30093. Phone-(404)-263-8181. (04/30/89, rev. 0)
                          MachineModel=01FC
                          BIOSdate=19890430
                          BIOSCRC16=F102
                          VideoSystem=VGA
                          VideoAdapter=VGA, Paradise PVGA1A, 8-Bit-Video, 8-Bit-ROMfixed-sync, 512kb Vi
                          Machine=AT clone

                          and the MakeIt486 (no cache enabled):

                          [ATTACH=CONFIG]60000[/ATTACH]
                          ;Data collected by: TOPBENCH | Benchmark and detection stub | Version 0.97
                          ;This file contains fingerprinting information about your computer. Please
                          ;email this file to trixter@oldskool.org with a subject line of "Benchmark" to
                          ;help test these routines and seed the TOPBENCH database.

                          [UIDF1026E7]
                          MemoryTest=769
                          OpcodeTest=372
                          VidramTest=787
                          MemEATest=491
                          3DGameTest=358
                          Score=18
                          CPU=Cyrix/TI 486-class processor
                          CPUspeed=33 MHz
                          BIOSinfo=R(C)1985-1989, American Megatrends Inc,.All Rights Reserved.1346 Oakbrook Drive, Suite-120, Norcross, GA-30093. Phone-(404)-263-8181. (04/30/89, rev. 0)
                          MachineModel=01FC
                          BIOSdate=19890430
                          BIOSCRC16=F102
                          VideoSystem=VGA
                          VideoAdapter=VGA, Paradise PVGA1A, 8-Bit-Video, 8-Bit-ROMfixed-sync, 512kb Vi
                          Machine=AT clone

                          and at last the "new" Nokia-module:
                          [ATTACH=CONFIG]60001[/ATTACH]
                          ;Data collected by: TOPBENCH | Benchmark and detection stub | Version 0.97
                          ;This file contains fingerprinting information about your computer. Please
                          ;email this file to trixter@oldskool.org with a subject line of "Benchmark" to
                          ;help test these routines and seed the TOPBENCH database.

                          [UIDF102920]
                          MemoryTest=1048
                          OpcodeTest=396
                          VidramTest=771
                          MemEATest=527
                          3DGameTest=401
                          Score=16
                          CPU=AMD Am386SX
                          CPUspeed=8 MHz
                          BIOSinfo=R(C)1985-1989, American Megatrends Inc,.All Rights Reserved.1346 Oakbrook Drive, Suite-120, Norcross, GA-30093. Phone-(404)-263-8181. (04/30/89, rev. 0)
                          MachineModel=01FC
                          BIOSdate=19890430
                          BIOSCRC16=F102
                          VideoSystem=VGA
                          VideoAdapter=VGA, Paradise PVGA1A, 8-Bit-Video, 8-Bit-ROMfixed-sync, 512kb Vi
                          Machine=AT clone

                          ..i had to build some socket extensions , but after i firm pressure the Nokia-module did connect to the motherboard
                          [ATTACH=CONFIG]60002[/ATTACH]

                          The speed of this "new" (a call it new - i have never used it before ) nokia-module is not doubled. But the feeling , when used in PCDOS is better then the MakeIt486 (without cache enabled) !!
                          /cimonvg
                          I guess this further supports the assertion that a 386sx really isn't any faster than a 286 at the same clock speed. The 486 is really hurt by the lack of cache. Even that early on it's obvious how important it was to keep the CPU fed.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            There's always babyAT motherboards. I dropped one into my XT clone back in the day. A tight fit under the A: drive housing, but it worked well.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              When going through my stack of boards I happened to find a board that has a 386SX: not soldered but using a socket. Because this board was not of the usual AT format, wrong placed holes and LPT/COM port at the end of board, plus it needed a not-standard riser board to attach cards, which I didn't have, so I decided to use this CPU for my project. To be honest I never paid that much attention to the pins but now I see that they are small, IMHO really to small to solder them using a normal soldering tool
                              Just another challenge, I think....
                              With kind regards / met vriendelijke groet, Ruud Baltissen

                              www.baltissen.org

                              Comment

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