Forum Rules and Etiquette

Our mission ...

This forum is part of our mission to promote the preservation of vintage computers through education and outreach. (In real life we also run events and have a museum.) We encourage you to join us, participate, share your knowledge, and enjoy.

This forum has been around in this format for over 15 years. These rules and guidelines help us maintain a healthy and active community, and we moderate the forum to keep things on track. Please familiarize yourself with these rules and guidelines.

Rule 1: Remain civil and respectful

There are several hundred people who actively participate here. People come from all different backgrounds and will have different ways of seeing things. You will not agree with everything you read here. Back-and-forth discussions are fine but do not cross the line into rude or disrespectful behavior.

Conduct yourself as you would at any other place where people come together in person to discuss their hobby. If you wouldn't say something to somebody in person, then you probably should not be writing it here.

This should be obvious but, just in case: profanity, threats, slurs against any group (sexual, racial, gender, etc.) will not be tolerated.

Rule 2: Stay close to the original topic being discussed
  • If you are starting a new thread choose a reasonable sub-forum to start your thread. (If you choose incorrectly don't worry, we can fix that.)
  • If you are responding to a thread, stay on topic - the original poster was trying to achieve something. You can always start a new thread instead of potentially "hijacking" an existing thread.

Rule 3: Contribute something meaningful

To put things in engineering terms, we value a high signal to noise ratio. Coming here should not be a waste of time.
  • This is not a chat room. If you are taking less than 30 seconds to make a post then you are probably doing something wrong. A post should be on topic, clear, and contribute something meaningful to the discussion. If people read your posts and feel that their time as been wasted, they will stop reading your posts. Worse yet, they will stop visiting and we'll lose their experience and contributions.
  • Do not bump threads.
  • Do not "necro-post" unless you are following up to a specific person on a specific thread. And even then, that person may have moved on. Just start a new thread for your related topic.
  • Use the Private Message system for posts that are targeted at a specific person.

Rule 4: "PM Sent!" messages (or, how to use the Private Message system)

This forum has a private message feature that we want people to use for messages that are not of general interest to other members.

In short, if you are going to reply to a thread and that reply is targeted to a specific individual and not of interest to anybody else (either now or in the future) then send a private message instead.

Here are some obvious examples of when you should not reply to a thread and use the PM system instead:
  • "PM Sent!": Do not tell the rest of us that you sent a PM ... the forum software will tell the other person that they have a PM waiting.
  • "How much is shipping to ....": This is a very specific and directed question that is not of interest to anybody else.

Why do we have this policy? Sending a "PM Sent!" type message basically wastes everybody else's time by making them having to scroll past a post in a thread that looks to be updated, when the update is not meaningful. And the person you are sending the PM to will be notified by the forum software that they have a message waiting for them. Look up at the top near the right edge where it says 'Notifications' ... if you have a PM waiting, it will tell you there.

Rule 5: Copyright and other legal issues

We are here to discuss vintage computing, so discussing software, books, and other intellectual property that is on-topic is fine. We don't want people using these forums to discuss or enable copyright violations or other things that are against the law; whether you agree with the law or not is irrelevant. Do not use our resources for something that is legally or morally questionable.

Our discussions here generally fall under "fair use." Telling people how to pirate a software title is an example of something that is not allowable here.

Reporting problematic posts

If you see spam, a wildly off-topic post, or something abusive or illegal please report the thread by clicking on the "Report Post" icon. (It looks like an exclamation point in a triangle and it is available under every post.) This send a notification to all of the moderators, so somebody will see it and deal with it.

If you are unsure you may consider sending a private message to a moderator instead.

New user moderation

New users are directly moderated so that we can weed spammers out early. This means that for your first 10 posts you will have some delay before they are seen. We understand this can be disruptive to the flow of conversation and we try to keep up with our new user moderation duties to avoid undue inconvenience. Please do not make duplicate posts, extra posts to bump your post count, or ask the moderators to expedite this process; 10 moderated posts will go by quickly.

New users also have a smaller personal message inbox limit and are rate limited when sending PMs to other users.

Other suggestions
  • Use Google, books, or other definitive sources. There is a lot of information out there.
  • Don't make people guess at what you are trying to say; we are not mind readers. Be clear and concise.
  • Spelling and grammar are not rated, but they do make a post easier to read.
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Phoenix Computer Products MS-DOS User's Guide and User's Reference 1988

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    Phoenix Computer Products MS-DOS User's Guide and User's Reference 1988

    I have it here, a single bound manual. Was this supplied with hardware? Was there any other manuals, as this being part of a set?

    It was supposed to be sold with hardware. Typically, it would be paired with a manual for GW-BASIC. There might also have been a slim Getting Started brochure depending on exactly when it was printed. Other manuals would have been supplied with the computer but printed completely separately with generally obviously different bindings.


      So was this a computer with the Phoenix name brand on it?


        I can't find an ad showing Phoenix selling complete computers but they did sell CPU upgrade cards like the Pfaster. They also had an early business customizing DOS for small specialty makers. Might have been sold on its own but the contract terms were supposed to prevent that.

        I am presuming that the Phoenix Computer Products listed is the one from Norwood, MA which became the Phoenix Technologies of BIOS fame.


          Originally posted by krebizfan View Post
          I am presuming that the Phoenix Computer Products listed is the one from Norwood, MA which became the Phoenix Technologies of BIOS fame.
          Likely so...remember, during the '87-'96 timeframe, virtually everyone was producing PC's. Wasn't unusual to see companies rise and fall within just a couple of years, until the 'net became popular (and Computer Shopper magazine didn't). For some reason I saved the June '95 edition of C/S---almost 800 pages. I'm sure a couple years prior it probably approached 900 or 1000.


            If P* sold a pc with their name on it, I want to see it. And even if they did, it must simply be a rebranded more or less vanilla clone.


              Looking through old Infoworld articles it looks like Phoenix signed up to be an MS-DOS sub-licensee at the same time they started selling their clone BIOS to other PC makers, and Phoenix-branded versions of MS-DOS persisted until at least 4.0. One of the oldest articles about the Phoenix BIOS from 1984 specifically says they were offering OEMs a BIOS-plus-their versions of MS-DOS 2.11 and GW-BASIC package deal.

              My guess is, then, that they didn't actually sell PCs but some of their lazier white-box customers didn't bother slapping their own branded manuals together, instead simply redistributing a generic "Phoenix" brand one.
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