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Why the bleep is eBay so expensive??

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    #46
    Originally posted by whartung View Post
    But then, PC's plateaued. They've been "fast enough" for the longest time
    ...
    Operating systems have homogenized. We've been running the same Word Processor for 20 years, the only real growth is in GPUs and video games. Interesting for some, perhaps. But most of those continue to work on modern hardware.
    In terms of professional software, is it only 20 years, or is there really anything other than video and multi-track audio editing that couldn't have been done in 1989? I'm finding that the professional software of that time is extremely well-polished and, in some ways, more capable than what we have now, in terms of actually getting the work done and information communicated if it was text, numbers, and illustrations.

    When you think of it that way, are the eBay prices that high, or is getting a nice vintage machine (where the seller is actually selling an excellent quality preservation or restoration at a premium) actually a bargain over today's $1000+, usually $2000+ once you upgrade a few things, new machines with bloated software, no manuals, constant updates and reboots, and no end user serviceability?

    Comment


      #47
      Originally posted by charnitz View Post
      When you think of it that way, are the eBay prices that high, or is getting a nice vintage machine (where the seller is actually selling an excellent quality preservation or restoration at a premium) actually a bargain over today's $1000+, usually $2000+ once you upgrade a few things, new machines with bloated software, no manuals, constant updates and reboots, and no end user serviceability?
      I shudder to think that some eBay asking prices I am seeing are justified. There is one that I have my eye on that is a beautiful, unique aesthetic, but I can’t justify the sale price plus shipping for what they say is sold-as-parts-only since they can’t/won’t get it working.
      Sattinger’s Law: “It works better if you plug it in.” 🤯 Corollary: “It works even better if you plug it in correctly.” 🤯🤯
      "The simplest solution is the most likely solution." --My paraphrase of Occam's Razor
      "You can get [a computer] like yours at a garage sale for, like, fifteen dollars," --Strong Sad, sbemail #33

      Comment


        #48
        Originally posted by Bill-kun View Post
        I shudder to think that some eBay asking prices I am seeing are justified. There is one that I have my eye on that is a beautiful, unique aesthetic, but I can’t justify the sale price plus shipping for what they say is sold-as-parts-only since they can’t/won’t get it working.
        People sell things as for parts because they can refuse returns and refunds. Once items get into the 100's of dollars just for the parts people will buy whole machines just to swap parts out and get a refund. Also some people don't know how to test something made before Windows or don't want to fry something worth serious money (to them).

        Only collectors know the difference between rare and common for specific era machines, sellers tend to find something that looks close and price it around what others are pricing things for.
        What I collect: 68K/Early PPC Mac, DOS/Win 3.1 era machines, Amiga/ST, C64/128
        Nubus/ISA/VLB/MCA/EISA cards of all types
        Boxed apps and games for the above systems
        Analog video capture cards/software and complete systems

        Comment


          #49
          Originally posted by whartung View Post
          The thing, to me, about the mid-range stuff, is that it's spectacularly uninteresting.

          It's uninteresting because it's not changing much. Throughout the late 70s, 80s, and even early 90s, we were all on the rising tide that lifts all boats. Moore's law was in full swing and had dramatic impact on day to day activity. "You mean I have the memory and CPU for free, on the fly spell checking now?".

          But then, PC's plateaued. They've been "fast enough" for the longest time.

          Manufacturing got more sophisticated, for sure. There's still some exotic hardware to a point, but in the end, it all feels the same.....
          While all of this is certainly true, I think a time machine ride back to something like 1995 or 2000 would reveal users thinking the same kind of thing - that all they were seeing coming onto the market were new versions of the same thing that could go a bit faster, do a bit more, but were largely the same as the model(s) before. The problem really is that even by then, all the new markets for the use of these systems had happened - with the possible exception of video editing and the internet.

          It is what we use systems for that marks how they will be remembered, and it really isn't until the dust has settled a bit on history that it becomes a little more than merely what version of Word we had, or which flavour of Windows.

          Admittedly, I am speaking as a user of vintage systems, but the reason I value them so much is that they didn't have the power or resources to support all the bloat and garbage we habitually deal with today, the always-on interfaces providing constant demands for attention. Yet, I'd bet that whatever the systems that people will be using in another 20, 30 or even 50 years, they'll look back on what we have now and be curious to know why these systems were used, and want to try them out for themselves.

          Nostalgia. It'll look cool then, once people have something a lot worse than Windows 10 to contend with in their systems every day!

          Comment


            #50
            Originally posted by AndyO View Post
            Nostalgia. It'll look cool then, once people have something a lot worse than Windows 10 to contend with in their systems every day!
            Worse than Windows 10? Eww! Just Eww!
            "It's all bits on the bus, Cowboy! It's all bits on the bus!" -- Tom Beck, #1ESS Instructor, Southern Bell Opa Locka Training Center

            Comment


              #51
              Originally posted by DDS View Post
              Some will and some won't. Look at some other hobbies for examples. There are actually more 1932 Fords on the roads today than Henry made in 1932. Which is kind of amazing when you take into account how many were collected and melted down in WWII scrap drives. How can that be? The demand for originals outpaced the supply enough to create and nurture a thriving "repop" industry.

              https://brookvilleroadster.com/

              Another company was doing so well restoring Ford Broncos that Ford has brought a modernized version back into production.

              But I'm sorry to break to to you 1960 Mercury fans. There ain't a whole lot of love going around for the ugliest car ever made this side of France.

              Bottom line? If you have an Altair or an IMSAI 8080, hang on to them. Ditto for just about anything DEC. Some things are already selling for more than they did new, and the prices are not likely to be dropping any time soon if ever.
              Thats pretty interesting DDS. I have been looking at those car kits going back to the 90's and always wanted a and old Ford Pickup but here in New England they have long since rotted. I always had feelings of the kit cars and not being a true reproduction, but I had no basis for those beliefs.




              Originally posted by Unknown_K View Post
              People sell things as for parts because they can refuse returns and refunds. Once items get into the 100's of dollars
              I am putting serious thought into changing ALL my listings to broken/as is just for the few people who don't read the listing or are trying to scam the system. I have gotten 5 of these in the past month and eBay ALWAYS sides with the buyer. I was selling some broken IIgs boards. Sold them as broken. Someone bought them I assume because they thought I didn't know how to test, they probably work or he can fix them easily and fip them. When we realized her couldn't, he opened a "Doesn't match description" case and there I am on the phone with India asking why my broken items are even allowed to have a return case opened.. And that was just one of the cases.. The rest were similar. One guy who may or may not have had mental impairments assumed one of my video adapters was an RF device even though it DOES NOT say that anywhere in the listing, eBay allowed him a return even though I have sold almost 100 of these with NEVER a single return. Thanks for F#$king up my record ebay!

              So all in all I think it doesnt matter, if you are a seller on eBay your screwed.
              Last edited by VERAULT; March 4, 2021, 07:14 AM.

              Comment


                #52
                Originally posted by DDS View Post
                Worse than Windows 10? Eww! Just Eww!
                I know!!! Hard to imagine where all this is heading.

                But many of us said the same about DOS! And each new iteration of MacOS or Windows tends to make me want to go back at least a step or two!

                Comment


                  #53
                  Originally posted by AndyO View Post
                  each new iteration of MacOS or Windows tends to make me want to go back at least a step or two!
                  Enjoy that while programs still being developed continue to work on old releases.
                  Current releases of browsers are the worst for abandoning old machines, and of course the web keeps churning requiring the latest shiny.

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Originally posted by VERAULT View Post
                    he opened a "Doesn't match description" case and there I am on the phone with India asking why my broken items are even allowed to have a return case opened..

                    So all in all I think it doesn't matter, if you are a seller on eBay your screwed.
                    Been there, done that. I sell on eBay, and yes, as a seller you are screwed when dealing with buyers. The "Does not match description" thing is used all too often for fraudulent reasons by buyers. What's the alternative? Amazon? That sounds even worse.

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Originally posted by Al Kossow View Post
                      Enjoy that while programs still being developed continue to work on old releases.
                      Current releases of browsers are the worst for abandoning old machines, and of course the web keeps churning requiring the latest shiny.
                      Speaking only for myself, I don't have a great deal of interest in software being currently developed and released because to me, this is much of the problem with current/recent computing. The drive to add features, to build out 'better' applications and OSes, just makes for unnecessary bloat and solutions that are more of the problem.

                      Plus, the constant nagging for updates and patches, notifications and interruptions in workflow reduce my efficiency.

                      It's true that if we want the latest, we have to put up with all this, but I didn't get interested in computing for any reason than that it seemed to offer useful tools to get the job done. Those self-same computers, old as they are now, still do.

                      They, and I, predate the internet. Of course, I do use eBay and the web as a whole, but I have systems for that which are not intended for serious work!

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Originally posted by kc8eyt View Post
                        Been there, done that. I sell on eBay, and yes, as a seller you are screwed when dealing with buyers. The "Does not match description" thing is used all too often for fraudulent reasons by buyers. What's the alternative? Amazon? That sounds even worse.
                        There is no alternative..... eBay has the money to tie up EVERYONE in litigation so they have monopolized the market.

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Originally posted by VERAULT View Post
                          I am putting serious thought into changing ALL my listings to broken/as is just for the few people who don't read the listing or are trying to scam the system. I have gotten 5 of these in the past month and eBay ALWAYS sides with the buyer. I was selling some broken IIgs boards. Sold them as broken. Someone bought them I assume because they thought I didn't know how to test, they probably work or he can fix them easily and fip them. When we realized her couldn't, he opened a "Doesn't match description" case and there I am on the phone with India asking why my broken items are even allowed to have a return case opened.. And that was just one of the cases.. The rest were similar. One guy who may or may not have had mental impairments assumed one of my video adapters was an RF device even though it DOES NOT say that anywhere in the listing, eBay allowed him a return even though I have sold almost 100 of these with NEVER a single return. Thanks for F#$king up my record ebay!

                          So all in all I think it doesnt matter, if you are a seller on eBay your screwed.
                          I just received an ebay shipment for what was listed as a LTO-3 tape drive with a non stock picture of that exact drive and received a DLT VLS160 drive in an oversized box with 0 packing in it. So not as described is what I will go with but I emailed the seller first just to hear what he has to say.
                          What I collect: 68K/Early PPC Mac, DOS/Win 3.1 era machines, Amiga/ST, C64/128
                          Nubus/ISA/VLB/MCA/EISA cards of all types
                          Boxed apps and games for the above systems
                          Analog video capture cards/software and complete systems

                          Comment


                            #58
                            There you go unknown_K. You did the right thing, maybe they are a good seller but mixed up packages (still no excuse for shitty packing but that is more common then not). I always message them first as well. The good sellers fix the problems with no need to open a claim.

                            Comment


                              #59
                              Originally posted by charnitz View Post
                              In terms of professional software, is it only 20 years, or is there really anything other than video and multi-track audio editing that couldn't have been done in 1989?
                              Nonlinear video editing was still a ways off, but a professional DAW, Sonic Solutions' Sonic System, was available with 48kHz/24-bit capability in 1989. Two more years and Pro Tools hit the scene.
                              --
                              Thus spake Tandy Xenix System III version 3.2: "Bughlt: Sckmud Shut her down Scotty, she's sucking mud again!"

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Maybe all this eBay rigamarole is why God gave us the Computer Reset Liquidation. (If you don’t know about it, start by watching LGR’s video on YouTube.)
                                Sattinger’s Law: “It works better if you plug it in.” 🤯 Corollary: “It works even better if you plug it in correctly.” 🤯🤯
                                "The simplest solution is the most likely solution." --My paraphrase of Occam's Razor
                                "You can get [a computer] like yours at a garage sale for, like, fifteen dollars," --Strong Sad, sbemail #33

                                Comment

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