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This forum is part of our mission to promote the preservation of vintage computers through education and outreach. (In real life we also run events and have a museum.) We encourage you to join us, participate, share your knowledge, and enjoy.

This forum has been around in this format for over 15 years. These rules and guidelines help us maintain a healthy and active community, and we moderate the forum to keep things on track. Please familiarize yourself with these rules and guidelines.


Rule 1: Remain civil and respectful

There are several hundred people who actively participate here. People come from all different backgrounds and will have different ways of seeing things. You will not agree with everything you read here. Back-and-forth discussions are fine but do not cross the line into rude or disrespectful behavior.

Conduct yourself as you would at any other place where people come together in person to discuss their hobby. If you wouldn't say something to somebody in person, then you probably should not be writing it here.

This should be obvious but, just in case: profanity, threats, slurs against any group (sexual, racial, gender, etc.) will not be tolerated.


Rule 2: Stay close to the original topic being discussed
  • If you are starting a new thread choose a reasonable sub-forum to start your thread. (If you choose incorrectly don't worry, we can fix that.)
  • If you are responding to a thread, stay on topic - the original poster was trying to achieve something. You can always start a new thread instead of potentially "hijacking" an existing thread.



Rule 3: Contribute something meaningful

To put things in engineering terms, we value a high signal to noise ratio. Coming here should not be a waste of time.
  • This is not a chat room. If you are taking less than 30 seconds to make a post then you are probably doing something wrong. A post should be on topic, clear, and contribute something meaningful to the discussion. If people read your posts and feel that their time as been wasted, they will stop reading your posts. Worse yet, they will stop visiting and we'll lose their experience and contributions.
  • Do not bump threads.
  • Do not "necro-post" unless you are following up to a specific person on a specific thread. And even then, that person may have moved on. Just start a new thread for your related topic.
  • Use the Private Message system for posts that are targeted at a specific person.


Rule 4: "PM Sent!" messages (or, how to use the Private Message system)

This forum has a private message feature that we want people to use for messages that are not of general interest to other members.

In short, if you are going to reply to a thread and that reply is targeted to a specific individual and not of interest to anybody else (either now or in the future) then send a private message instead.

Here are some obvious examples of when you should not reply to a thread and use the PM system instead:
  • "PM Sent!": Do not tell the rest of us that you sent a PM ... the forum software will tell the other person that they have a PM waiting.
  • "How much is shipping to ....": This is a very specific and directed question that is not of interest to anybody else.


Why do we have this policy? Sending a "PM Sent!" type message basically wastes everybody else's time by making them having to scroll past a post in a thread that looks to be updated, when the update is not meaningful. And the person you are sending the PM to will be notified by the forum software that they have a message waiting for them. Look up at the top near the right edge where it says 'Notifications' ... if you have a PM waiting, it will tell you there.

Rule 5: Copyright and other legal issues

We are here to discuss vintage computing, so discussing software, books, and other intellectual property that is on-topic is fine. We don't want people using these forums to discuss or enable copyright violations or other things that are against the law; whether you agree with the law or not is irrelevant. Do not use our resources for something that is legally or morally questionable.

Our discussions here generally fall under "fair use." Telling people how to pirate a software title is an example of something that is not allowable here.


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If you see spam, a wildly off-topic post, or something abusive or illegal please report the thread by clicking on the "Report Post" icon. (It looks like an exclamation point in a triangle and it is available under every post.) This send a notification to all of the moderators, so somebody will see it and deal with it.

If you are unsure you may consider sending a private message to a moderator instead.


New user moderation

New users are directly moderated so that we can weed spammers out early. This means that for your first 10 posts you will have some delay before they are seen. We understand this can be disruptive to the flow of conversation and we try to keep up with our new user moderation duties to avoid undue inconvenience. Please do not make duplicate posts, extra posts to bump your post count, or ask the moderators to expedite this process; 10 moderated posts will go by quickly.

New users also have a smaller personal message inbox limit and are rate limited when sending PMs to other users.


Other suggestions
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Why the bleep is eBay so expensive??

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  • 8008guy
    replied
    I got stuck with conterfit LM338k,s they were relabeled LM317's. The seller has sold thousands of items. Didn't even respond to me. They don't offer refunds.

    Leave a comment:


  • Agent Orange
    replied
    Originally posted by tipc View Post
    Software is different , much easier to fake. Can't fake a motherboard, although I'm sure China has tried. You can fake "new" though. It's a hazard, but not a large one IMHO.
    The software was real. It was the key that was fake. When you think about it, it would be really hard to put out phoney Windows.

    Leave a comment:


  • tipc
    replied
    Software is different , much easier to fake. Can't fake a motherboard, although I'm sure China has tried. You can fake "new" though. It's a hazard, but not a large one IMHO.

    Leave a comment:


  • Agent Orange
    replied
    Originally posted by charnitz View Post
    How can anyone buy (with the intent to keep shrink-wrapped) or sell shrink-wrapped products on eBay, especially at a premium? As the buyer, if you don't open it up to inspect it, it may contain a brick. As the seller, if you don't open it up and inspect it before you sell it, the buyer can claim it contained a brick and you have no photographic evidence you had the contents.

    Also, is it really unscrupulous to sell something as shrink-wrapped without claiming it was never-opened? If is shrink-wrapped, but not claimed as never-opened, the buyer is the one that makes the assumption it was never-opened. Because of the verification problem, wouldn't everything have to be opened, inspected, and re-wrapped anyway?
    I bought a shrink wrapped edition of Windows 7 Ultimate last spring and it was counterfeit. I got a full refund including shipping from the seller and didn't have to go through PayPal or Ebay. There would have been no way to tell if it was legit even if the shrink was removed as it was all about the key.

    Leave a comment:


  • Google
    replied
    Nostalgia can be a pretty powerful thing.

    Leave a comment:


  • tipc
    replied
    Well I for 1 would be terribly pissed if someone sells something as new, and according to eBay new means unopened, never handled, and upon getting it finding out it isn't new. I once bought a motherboard and resold it without ever opening it. It is what it is. New is new, we shouldn't worry about the small percentage of time when someone tries to get over on a seller or buyer. It absolutely burns me to no end when sellers advertises pulls or A grade items as new when there isn't even packaging involved. The one exception is bulk packed items. The item is only as new as it was when it left the factory.

    Leave a comment:


  • charnitz
    replied
    Originally posted by Trixter View Post
    The only area of this hobby that concerns me are the rising prices of computer games. Some go into the thousands, and these numbers are justified by the quality of the item, still in factory shrinkwrap... but some people have discovered that you can re-wrap items and the inexperienced collector won't/can't tell the difference. It's not exactly counterfeiting, but it is definitely unscrupulous, which is why my next youtube video is about this very subject.
    How can anyone buy (with the intent to keep shrink-wrapped) or sell shrink-wrapped products on eBay, especially at a premium? As the buyer, if you don't open it up to inspect it, it may contain a brick. As the seller, if you don't open it up and inspect it before you sell it, the buyer can claim it contained a brick and you have no photographic evidence you had the contents.

    Also, is it really unscrupulous to sell something as shrink-wrapped without claiming it was never-opened? If is shrink-wrapped, but not claimed as never-opened, the buyer is the one that makes the assumption it was never-opened. Because of the verification problem, wouldn't everything have to be opened, inspected, and re-wrapped anyway?

    Leave a comment:


  • jafir
    replied
    Originally posted by Trixter View Post
    but some people have discovered that you can re-wrap items and the inexperienced collector won't/can't tell the difference. It's not exactly counterfeiting, but it is definitely unscrupulous, which is why my next youtube video is about this very subject.
    Some of this even happened “back in the day” but I don’t think those examples were being unscrupulous, in certain instances.

    FD1C5178-8299-424C-98D1-2FECEBB2F026.jpeg

    Leave a comment:


  • NoPizzaTonite
    replied
    HA! Over $1k with shipping. No monitor - though the library has a little worth

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-PC-AT-5...orig_cvip=true

    Maybe a good time for some of ya OG to look at parting out some of that hoard of yours - people have stock returns money!

    Leave a comment:


  • Agent Orange
    replied
    Originally posted by tipc View Post
    I think you're missing the point entirely. There are hundreds of items that have a huge, seemingly arbitrary markup. I can't pretend to fathom the reason/s. Someone suggested money laundering. As good an explanation as any. Like Al Queda embedding messages in pornose.

    I haven't sold anything in a while. eBay sent me notices stating my rating has fallen below standards. I think as a result there are certain promotions I'm not offered anymore, which sucks. Anyway do sellers arbitrarily markup their items to make ebay think more highly of them?
    I just sold a few items on Ebay and I set the price at what I thought I could get at the time. I not the benevolent good guy on Ebay. Most of the time I'll put it up on the forum here for a few and offer some sort of a deal, then if no takers, it's off to Ebay for whatever I can get.

    Leave a comment:


  • tipc
    replied
    Originally posted by VERAULT View Post
    I can still find plenty of parts for my snow blower, lawn tractor, and washer/dryer on ebay cheaper than amazon. For now....

    But here is my 2 cents on the current crisis. Where did the economy/budget cars go? Did everyone forget the Geo/Chevrolet Metro? it was a 9 thousand dollar car on a .999L 3 cyl engine. An AMAZING commuter car that got better gas mileage than most hybrids (Hybrids are a FARCE!). What happened to entry level commuter cars? They dont exist. Sure the Metro was the far side of that spectrum, but say Toyota; They used to sell the Tercel, than the Corolla, than the Camry. Where did the Tercel go? Honda had the CRX, than the Civic, than the accrord/prelude. Yeah they re-released the CRX, but its more of an accord at this point. The original CRV had MANUAL brakes, and MANUAL steering. Where are the entry level cars!? I don't own an SUV nor will I ever buy one!!!!
    I think you're missing the point entirely. There are hundreds of items that have a huge, seemingly arbitrary markup. I can't pretend to fathom the reason/s. Someone suggested money laundering. As good an explanation as any. Like Al Queda embedding messages in pornose.

    I haven't sold anything in a while. eBay sent me notices stating my rating has fallen below standards. I think as a result there are certain promotions I'm not offered anymore, which sucks. Anyway do sellers arbitrarily markup their items to make ebay think more highly of them?

    Leave a comment:


  • Agent Orange
    replied
    Originally posted by VERAULT View Post
    I can still find plenty of parts for my snow blower, lawn tractor, and washer/dryer on ebay cheaper than amazon. For now....

    But here is my 2 cents on the current crisis. Where did the economy/budget cars go? Did everyone forget the Geo/Chevrolet Metro? it was a 9 thousand dollar car on a .999L 3 cyl engine. An AMAZING commuter car that got better gas mileage than most hybrids (Hybrids are a FARCE!). What happened to entry level commuter cars? They dont exist. Sure the Metro was the far side of that spectrum, but say Toyota; They used to sell the Tercel, than the Corolla, than the Camry. Where did the Tercel go? Honda had the CRX, than the Civic, than the accrord/prelude. Yeah they re-released the CRX, but its more of an accord at this point. The original CRV had MANUAL brakes, and MANUAL steering. Where are the entry level cars!? I don't own an SUV nor will I ever buy one!!!!
    About a year and a half ago I bought my wife a Mazda CX-9. I looked at everything in my price range and it came out on top. What you will notice when shopping is it will be difficult to find a new vehicle with manual anything. They all have P/S, P/B. P/Seats, A/C, Automatic Trans, Basic Stereo, etc. It's real hard if not impossible to find a standard shift unless it's a sports car or truck. So, these are the standards these days and they just bumped up the bottom line. It would be too expensive to option, say the Corolla, to have manual roll-up windows. There may be exceptions to this but it's going to be some oddball make and not in the mainstream.

    Leave a comment:


  • Trixter
    replied
    Originally posted by VERAULT View Post
    Where did the economy/budget cars go?
    Most manufacturers abandoned them because they weren't profitable (there wasn't demand). Ford went even farther, they discontinued everything that wasn't an SUV or the Mustang. The cheapest new car you can buy in the USA is currently the Chevrolet Spark @ $14K but I wouldn't get in that unless I had a death wish. There are still entry level sedans, but "entry level" in 2021 means roughly $20k.

    Getting back on topic... regarding ebay pricing: While I'm sure a few auctions are money laundering, and others are special cases (like propmasters who have a 50K budget for "make this look like the 1980s" and don't care about cost), most people don't want to accept that there are very reasonable and understandable explanations for higher prices on vintage computers, vintage software/games, etc: Buyers are willing to pay that much. It really is that simple. People interested in the hobby are usually in a computer field, which pays pretty well these days. So someone in their early 30s who really, REALLY wants to revisit Windows 98 games on a 400 MHz Celeron with a 3DFX card will have no trouble forking over $400-$500 of disposable income (especially when they forked over $600 or more for the cell phone in their pocket).

    The only area of this hobby that concerns me are the rising prices of computer games. Some go into the thousands, and these numbers are justified by the quality of the item, still in factory shrinkwrap... but some people have discovered that you can re-wrap items and the inexperienced collector won't/can't tell the difference. It's not exactly counterfeiting, but it is definitely unscrupulous, which is why my next youtube video is about this very subject.

    Leave a comment:


  • VERAULT
    replied
    Originally posted by tipc View Post
    Everyone's talking about old puters. What about a water pump for a 1998 Grand Prix. Last 1 (2 sold), 999$:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-Wate...EAAOSw7xZdgMdS

    I'm glad I spotted 1 for 28$ before I saw that listing.
    I can still find plenty of parts for my snow blower, lawn tractor, and washer/dryer on ebay cheaper than amazon. For now....

    But here is my 2 cents on the current crisis. Where did the economy/budget cars go? Did everyone forget the Geo/Chevrolet Metro? it was a 9 thousand dollar car on a .999L 3 cyl engine. An AMAZING commuter car that got better gas mileage than most hybrids (Hybrids are a FARCE!). What happened to entry level commuter cars? They dont exist. Sure the Metro was the far side of that spectrum, but say Toyota; They used to sell the Tercel, than the Corolla, than the Camry. Where did the Tercel go? Honda had the CRX, than the Civic, than the accrord/prelude. Yeah they re-released the CRX, but its more of an accord at this point. The original CRV had MANUAL brakes, and MANUAL steering. Where are the entry level cars!? I don't own an SUV nor will I ever buy one!!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Unknown_K
    replied
    Maybe they have a 1998 Grand Prix GTP they want running and it might be a collectors item down the road (Pontiac is the new Amiga).

    Leave a comment:

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