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This forum is part of our mission to promote the preservation of vintage computers through education and outreach. (In real life we also run events and have a museum.) We encourage you to join us, participate, share your knowledge, and enjoy.

This forum has been around in this format for over 15 years. These rules and guidelines help us maintain a healthy and active community, and we moderate the forum to keep things on track. Please familiarize yourself with these rules and guidelines.


Rule 1: Remain civil and respectful

There are several hundred people who actively participate here. People come from all different backgrounds and will have different ways of seeing things. You will not agree with everything you read here. Back-and-forth discussions are fine but do not cross the line into rude or disrespectful behavior.

Conduct yourself as you would at any other place where people come together in person to discuss their hobby. If you wouldn't say something to somebody in person, then you probably should not be writing it here.

This should be obvious but, just in case: profanity, threats, slurs against any group (sexual, racial, gender, etc.) will not be tolerated.


Rule 2: Stay close to the original topic being discussed
  • If you are starting a new thread choose a reasonable sub-forum to start your thread. (If you choose incorrectly don't worry, we can fix that.)
  • If you are responding to a thread, stay on topic - the original poster was trying to achieve something. You can always start a new thread instead of potentially "hijacking" an existing thread.



Rule 3: Contribute something meaningful

To put things in engineering terms, we value a high signal to noise ratio. Coming here should not be a waste of time.
  • This is not a chat room. If you are taking less than 30 seconds to make a post then you are probably doing something wrong. A post should be on topic, clear, and contribute something meaningful to the discussion. If people read your posts and feel that their time as been wasted, they will stop reading your posts. Worse yet, they will stop visiting and we'll lose their experience and contributions.
  • Do not bump threads.
  • Do not "necro-post" unless you are following up to a specific person on a specific thread. And even then, that person may have moved on. Just start a new thread for your related topic.
  • Use the Private Message system for posts that are targeted at a specific person.


Rule 4: "PM Sent!" messages (or, how to use the Private Message system)

This forum has a private message feature that we want people to use for messages that are not of general interest to other members.

In short, if you are going to reply to a thread and that reply is targeted to a specific individual and not of interest to anybody else (either now or in the future) then send a private message instead.

Here are some obvious examples of when you should not reply to a thread and use the PM system instead:
  • "PM Sent!": Do not tell the rest of us that you sent a PM ... the forum software will tell the other person that they have a PM waiting.
  • "How much is shipping to ....": This is a very specific and directed question that is not of interest to anybody else.


Why do we have this policy? Sending a "PM Sent!" type message basically wastes everybody else's time by making them having to scroll past a post in a thread that looks to be updated, when the update is not meaningful. And the person you are sending the PM to will be notified by the forum software that they have a message waiting for them. Look up at the top near the right edge where it says 'Notifications' ... if you have a PM waiting, it will tell you there.

Rule 5: Copyright and other legal issues

We are here to discuss vintage computing, so discussing software, books, and other intellectual property that is on-topic is fine. We don't want people using these forums to discuss or enable copyright violations or other things that are against the law; whether you agree with the law or not is irrelevant. Do not use our resources for something that is legally or morally questionable.

Our discussions here generally fall under "fair use." Telling people how to pirate a software title is an example of something that is not allowable here.


Reporting problematic posts

If you see spam, a wildly off-topic post, or something abusive or illegal please report the thread by clicking on the "Report Post" icon. (It looks like an exclamation point in a triangle and it is available under every post.) This send a notification to all of the moderators, so somebody will see it and deal with it.

If you are unsure you may consider sending a private message to a moderator instead.


New user moderation

New users are directly moderated so that we can weed spammers out early. This means that for your first 10 posts you will have some delay before they are seen. We understand this can be disruptive to the flow of conversation and we try to keep up with our new user moderation duties to avoid undue inconvenience. Please do not make duplicate posts, extra posts to bump your post count, or ask the moderators to expedite this process; 10 moderated posts will go by quickly.

New users also have a smaller personal message inbox limit and are rate limited when sending PMs to other users.


Other suggestions
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Why the bleep is eBay so expensive??

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  • Trixter
    replied
    Originally posted by lowen View Post
    Nonlinear video editing was still a ways off, but a professional DAW, Sonic Solutions' Sonic System, was available with 48kHz/24-bit capability in 1989. Two more years and Pro Tools hit the scene.
    Not sure if this is the relevant time period, but I was editing broadcast-quality 480i video on a Windows NT rig with specialized video capture/playback hardware in 1996 and a RAID-0 of two SCSI drives.

    Leave a comment:


  • Trixter
    replied
    Originally posted by VERAULT View Post
    I was selling some broken IIgs boards. Sold them as broken. ...he opened a "Doesn't match description" case
    That seems really easy to overturn, as they absolutely did match the description. What was he trying to do, claim they are now working when all he wanted was broken boards? Or that they were not Apple IIgs boards?
    What was the outcome?

    Leave a comment:


  • charnitz
    replied
    Originally posted by lowen View Post
    Nonlinear video editing was still a ways off, but a professional DAW, Sonic Solutions' Sonic System, was available with 48kHz/24-bit capability in 1989. Two more years and Pro Tools hit the scene.
    Thank you, I didn't know about this and didn't realize that digital audio editing had advanced that far by the end of 1989.

    Originally posted by Bill-kun View Post
    Maybe all this eBay rigamarole is why God gave us the Computer Reset Liquidation. (If you donĀ’t know about it, start by watching LGRĀ’s video on YouTube.)
    Hasn't that or isn't that going to be liquidated on eBay though? I'm having trouble understanding why the family let people pick it and didn't hire a firm to eBay it. There was probably several millions of dollars of sales in there.
    Last edited by charnitz; March 4, 2021, 07:24 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • SomeGuy
    replied
    Originally posted by VERAULT View Post
    I am putting serious thought into changing ALL my listings to broken/as is just for the few people who don't read the listing or are trying to scam the system.
    It seems like some sellers already do this. Which has unfortunately degraded the very meaning of the term "broken/as is". It seems as if there is now almost an expectation for such items to actually work.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill-kun
    replied
    Maybe all this eBay rigamarole is why God gave us the Computer Reset Liquidation. (If you don’t know about it, start by watching LGR’s video on YouTube.)

    Leave a comment:


  • lowen
    replied
    Originally posted by charnitz View Post
    In terms of professional software, is it only 20 years, or is there really anything other than video and multi-track audio editing that couldn't have been done in 1989?
    Nonlinear video editing was still a ways off, but a professional DAW, Sonic Solutions' Sonic System, was available with 48kHz/24-bit capability in 1989. Two more years and Pro Tools hit the scene.

    Leave a comment:


  • VERAULT
    replied
    There you go unknown_K. You did the right thing, maybe they are a good seller but mixed up packages (still no excuse for shitty packing but that is more common then not). I always message them first as well. The good sellers fix the problems with no need to open a claim.

    Leave a comment:


  • Unknown_K
    replied
    Originally posted by VERAULT View Post
    I am putting serious thought into changing ALL my listings to broken/as is just for the few people who don't read the listing or are trying to scam the system. I have gotten 5 of these in the past month and eBay ALWAYS sides with the buyer. I was selling some broken IIgs boards. Sold them as broken. Someone bought them I assume because they thought I didn't know how to test, they probably work or he can fix them easily and fip them. When we realized her couldn't, he opened a "Doesn't match description" case and there I am on the phone with India asking why my broken items are even allowed to have a return case opened.. And that was just one of the cases.. The rest were similar. One guy who may or may not have had mental impairments assumed one of my video adapters was an RF device even though it DOES NOT say that anywhere in the listing, eBay allowed him a return even though I have sold almost 100 of these with NEVER a single return. Thanks for F#$king up my record ebay!

    So all in all I think it doesnt matter, if you are a seller on eBay your screwed.
    I just received an ebay shipment for what was listed as a LTO-3 tape drive with a non stock picture of that exact drive and received a DLT VLS160 drive in an oversized box with 0 packing in it. So not as described is what I will go with but I emailed the seller first just to hear what he has to say.

    Leave a comment:


  • VERAULT
    replied
    Originally posted by kc8eyt View Post
    Been there, done that. I sell on eBay, and yes, as a seller you are screwed when dealing with buyers. The "Does not match description" thing is used all too often for fraudulent reasons by buyers. What's the alternative? Amazon? That sounds even worse.
    There is no alternative..... eBay has the money to tie up EVERYONE in litigation so they have monopolized the market.

    Leave a comment:


  • AndyO
    replied
    Originally posted by Al Kossow View Post
    Enjoy that while programs still being developed continue to work on old releases.
    Current releases of browsers are the worst for abandoning old machines, and of course the web keeps churning requiring the latest shiny.
    Speaking only for myself, I don't have a great deal of interest in software being currently developed and released because to me, this is much of the problem with current/recent computing. The drive to add features, to build out 'better' applications and OSes, just makes for unnecessary bloat and solutions that are more of the problem.

    Plus, the constant nagging for updates and patches, notifications and interruptions in workflow reduce my efficiency.

    It's true that if we want the latest, we have to put up with all this, but I didn't get interested in computing for any reason than that it seemed to offer useful tools to get the job done. Those self-same computers, old as they are now, still do.

    They, and I, predate the internet. Of course, I do use eBay and the web as a whole, but I have systems for that which are not intended for serious work!

    Leave a comment:


  • kc8eyt
    replied
    Originally posted by VERAULT View Post
    he opened a "Doesn't match description" case and there I am on the phone with India asking why my broken items are even allowed to have a return case opened..

    So all in all I think it doesn't matter, if you are a seller on eBay your screwed.
    Been there, done that. I sell on eBay, and yes, as a seller you are screwed when dealing with buyers. The "Does not match description" thing is used all too often for fraudulent reasons by buyers. What's the alternative? Amazon? That sounds even worse.

    Leave a comment:


  • Al Kossow
    replied
    Originally posted by AndyO View Post
    each new iteration of MacOS or Windows tends to make me want to go back at least a step or two!
    Enjoy that while programs still being developed continue to work on old releases.
    Current releases of browsers are the worst for abandoning old machines, and of course the web keeps churning requiring the latest shiny.

    Leave a comment:


  • AndyO
    replied
    Originally posted by DDS View Post
    Worse than Windows 10? Eww! Just Eww!
    I know!!! Hard to imagine where all this is heading.

    But many of us said the same about DOS! And each new iteration of MacOS or Windows tends to make me want to go back at least a step or two!

    Leave a comment:


  • VERAULT
    replied
    Originally posted by DDS View Post
    Some will and some won't. Look at some other hobbies for examples. There are actually more 1932 Fords on the roads today than Henry made in 1932. Which is kind of amazing when you take into account how many were collected and melted down in WWII scrap drives. How can that be? The demand for originals outpaced the supply enough to create and nurture a thriving "repop" industry.

    https://brookvilleroadster.com/

    Another company was doing so well restoring Ford Broncos that Ford has brought a modernized version back into production.

    But I'm sorry to break to to you 1960 Mercury fans. There ain't a whole lot of love going around for the ugliest car ever made this side of France.

    Bottom line? If you have an Altair or an IMSAI 8080, hang on to them. Ditto for just about anything DEC. Some things are already selling for more than they did new, and the prices are not likely to be dropping any time soon if ever.
    Thats pretty interesting DDS. I have been looking at those car kits going back to the 90's and always wanted a and old Ford Pickup but here in New England they have long since rotted. I always had feelings of the kit cars and not being a true reproduction, but I had no basis for those beliefs.




    Originally posted by Unknown_K View Post
    People sell things as for parts because they can refuse returns and refunds. Once items get into the 100's of dollars
    I am putting serious thought into changing ALL my listings to broken/as is just for the few people who don't read the listing or are trying to scam the system. I have gotten 5 of these in the past month and eBay ALWAYS sides with the buyer. I was selling some broken IIgs boards. Sold them as broken. Someone bought them I assume because they thought I didn't know how to test, they probably work or he can fix them easily and fip them. When we realized her couldn't, he opened a "Doesn't match description" case and there I am on the phone with India asking why my broken items are even allowed to have a return case opened.. And that was just one of the cases.. The rest were similar. One guy who may or may not have had mental impairments assumed one of my video adapters was an RF device even though it DOES NOT say that anywhere in the listing, eBay allowed him a return even though I have sold almost 100 of these with NEVER a single return. Thanks for F#$king up my record ebay!

    So all in all I think it doesnt matter, if you are a seller on eBay your screwed.
    Last edited by VERAULT; March 4, 2021, 07:14 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • DDS
    replied
    Originally posted by AndyO View Post
    Nostalgia. It'll look cool then, once people have something a lot worse than Windows 10 to contend with in their systems every day!
    Worse than Windows 10? Eww! Just Eww!

    Leave a comment:

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