Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules and Etiquette

Our mission ...

This forum is part of our mission to promote the preservation of vintage computers through education and outreach. (In real life we also run events and have a museum.) We encourage you to join us, participate, share your knowledge, and enjoy.

This forum has been around in this format for over 15 years. These rules and guidelines help us maintain a healthy and active community, and we moderate the forum to keep things on track. Please familiarize yourself with these rules and guidelines.


Rule 1: Remain civil and respectful

There are several hundred people who actively participate here. People come from all different backgrounds and will have different ways of seeing things. You will not agree with everything you read here. Back-and-forth discussions are fine but do not cross the line into rude or disrespectful behavior.

Conduct yourself as you would at any other place where people come together in person to discuss their hobby. If you wouldn't say something to somebody in person, then you probably should not be writing it here.

This should be obvious but, just in case: profanity, threats, slurs against any group (sexual, racial, gender, etc.) will not be tolerated.


Rule 2: Stay close to the original topic being discussed
  • If you are starting a new thread choose a reasonable sub-forum to start your thread. (If you choose incorrectly don't worry, we can fix that.)
  • If you are responding to a thread, stay on topic - the original poster was trying to achieve something. You can always start a new thread instead of potentially "hijacking" an existing thread.



Rule 3: Contribute something meaningful

To put things in engineering terms, we value a high signal to noise ratio. Coming here should not be a waste of time.
  • This is not a chat room. If you are taking less than 30 seconds to make a post then you are probably doing something wrong. A post should be on topic, clear, and contribute something meaningful to the discussion. If people read your posts and feel that their time as been wasted, they will stop reading your posts. Worse yet, they will stop visiting and we'll lose their experience and contributions.
  • Do not bump threads.
  • Do not "necro-post" unless you are following up to a specific person on a specific thread. And even then, that person may have moved on. Just start a new thread for your related topic.
  • Use the Private Message system for posts that are targeted at a specific person.


Rule 4: "PM Sent!" messages (or, how to use the Private Message system)

This forum has a private message feature that we want people to use for messages that are not of general interest to other members.

In short, if you are going to reply to a thread and that reply is targeted to a specific individual and not of interest to anybody else (either now or in the future) then send a private message instead.

Here are some obvious examples of when you should not reply to a thread and use the PM system instead:
  • "PM Sent!": Do not tell the rest of us that you sent a PM ... the forum software will tell the other person that they have a PM waiting.
  • "How much is shipping to ....": This is a very specific and directed question that is not of interest to anybody else.


Why do we have this policy? Sending a "PM Sent!" type message basically wastes everybody else's time by making them having to scroll past a post in a thread that looks to be updated, when the update is not meaningful. And the person you are sending the PM to will be notified by the forum software that they have a message waiting for them. Look up at the top near the right edge where it says 'Notifications' ... if you have a PM waiting, it will tell you there.

Rule 5: Copyright and other legal issues

We are here to discuss vintage computing, so discussing software, books, and other intellectual property that is on-topic is fine. We don't want people using these forums to discuss or enable copyright violations or other things that are against the law; whether you agree with the law or not is irrelevant. Do not use our resources for something that is legally or morally questionable.

Our discussions here generally fall under "fair use." Telling people how to pirate a software title is an example of something that is not allowable here.


Reporting problematic posts

If you see spam, a wildly off-topic post, or something abusive or illegal please report the thread by clicking on the "Report Post" icon. (It looks like an exclamation point in a triangle and it is available under every post.) This send a notification to all of the moderators, so somebody will see it and deal with it.

If you are unsure you may consider sending a private message to a moderator instead.


New user moderation

New users are directly moderated so that we can weed spammers out early. This means that for your first 10 posts you will have some delay before they are seen. We understand this can be disruptive to the flow of conversation and we try to keep up with our new user moderation duties to avoid undue inconvenience. Please do not make duplicate posts, extra posts to bump your post count, or ask the moderators to expedite this process; 10 moderated posts will go by quickly.

New users also have a smaller personal message inbox limit and are rate limited when sending PMs to other users.


Other suggestions
  • Use Google, books, or other definitive sources. There is a lot of information out there.
  • Don't make people guess at what you are trying to say; we are not mind readers. Be clear and concise.
  • Spelling and grammar are not rated, but they do make a post easier to read.
See more
See less

SOL-20 UVEPROM module - help.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    SOL-20 UVEPROM module - help.

    I have attached a photo of the personality module I found in the SOL-20 I am restoring.

    I have found all kinds of issues on the motherboard so far such as IC's with missing pins(including the CPU) and corrosion and socket issues, so I think the computer was not working recently and various IC's were pulled and re-fitted poorly. I'm working through all this before I'm game to power it.

    In the meantime I am concerned about the ROM module:

    One of the IC pins on U2 wasn't in the socket hole it was bent over so not connected! Also I am wondering if the IC array has been plugged in out of order,or not.

    The ROMs had a small paper sticker on the window, except one sticker was totally missing on U2. This worried me so I put light occlusive foil over all of them to help reduce the total light exposure from now at least, and transferred the label markings that were on the original paper stickers onto these new aluminium stickers. But the labels look out of order with respect to the U1 to U-4 socket labels.

    So the first question is, does this look right or not or is it likely the roms are in the wrong sockets ?

    Secondly, does anybody know how I can contact Mr. Martin Eberhard ? I want to buy his MM5204Q programmer kit, it is looking like I might need one.
    Attached Files

    #2
    Hugo,
    The order of the EPROMS does look suspicious. Maybe if you can read them it will help.

    I found this site with information on the 5204 and programmer. Just need to download the Kilobaud issue for Sept 77.

    http://deramp.com/downloads/mfe_arch...M5204%20EPROM/
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...vqOVY_C2ARnAwB

    Maybe that will get you going for less than $20 like the article says.

    Larry

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by ldkraemer View Post
      Hugo,
      The order of the EPROMS does look suspicious. Maybe if you can read them it will help.

      I found this site with information on the 5204 and programmer. Just need to download the Kilobaud issue for Sept 77.

      http://deramp.com/downloads/mfe_arch...M5204%20EPROM/
      https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...vqOVY_C2ARnAwB

      Maybe that will get you going for less than $20 like the article says.

      Larry
      Thanks, but unfortunately it is not that simple. I have already looked at the Kilobaud article, the design was made to work with a KIM computer. Also with the asm program on the deramp.com link, I have no way to assemble it and execute it currently. This is why ideally I need the programmer made by Mr Eberhard.

      Also, as yet I cannot find Processor Technologies diagram of this board with the four UV eproms on it. Perhaps if someone has one, the labels could be checked to see if they are similar. The fact that one IC had a disconnected pin, makes me think it could never have worked like that, so the IC's must have been plugged in and out at some point.

      Comment


        #4
        Looking at the schematic, U1 to U4 are in consecutive ascending address order as expected. Iíd take a first guess and assume the S1 to S4 labels correspond to U1 to U4.

        Hugo - you have my email, so send me an email and Iíll send you Martinís.

        Mike
        Last edited by deramp5113; September 23, 2018, 06:00 AM.

        Comment


          #5
          pcb.jpg

          given the board is so small, you may be better off just making a new one with a 2816 on it.
          Last edited by Al Kossow; September 23, 2018, 08:03 AM.

          Comment


            #6
            Here are ICs reproduced and labelled if it helps. I don't have a programmer that can do 5204s unfortunately.

            SOL-20 PM.jpg
            Maintainer of http://vintagecomputer.ca

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by snuci View Post
              Here are ICs reproduced and labelled if it helps. I don't have a programmer that can do 5204s unfortunately.

              [ATTACH=CONFIG]48192[/ATTACH]
              Snuci,

              That is great thanks. It looks probably like what was written in pen on the original faded paper label S-"4", was most likely S-0 with unclear writing making me think it was a 4 and not an 0 (as there is no S-4) and the one where the paper label was missing, was probably S-1, and S-2 and S-3 are in the correct places (as probably are the other two).

              Comment


                #8
                To check the theory of what I suggested above, that I mistook a 0 for a 4, I removed the aluminium sticker to look at the original paper sticker (photo attached). A closer look at it , it is a 0 with a sloping line through it, but because part of it was faded out on first glance it looked like a 4. So it looks like all the ROMs are in the correct order, and the one missing the sticker will have been the one with an S-1 label.Thanks also to Al Kossow for posting the image of his board too.
                Attached Files

                Comment


                  #9
                  Another 5204 board here. I was worried about the state of the ROMs, too, but didn't have a problem. Keep posting as you restore. I had a few head-scratchers with my Sol.

                  IMG_0118.jpg

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Hi efj91,

                    Thanks for posting that image which also confirms the labeling and the correct ROM positions.

                    I have worked through the entire main board cleaning & lubricating IC pins and sockets. The pins on the Signetics IC's do well with age, but the silver plated ones on the TI IC's get heavily oxidised. The worst examples includes a few IC's where the pins had rusted off, but in every case I was able to save the original IC by soldering new donor pins to the remaining stumps. It is important to use only IC pins with the exact geometry so that the sockets are not damaged. I could have replaced some of the 74LS IC's but, it is nice to have all the originals with the '70's date codes. I'm still not game to power the main board until I have completed restoring and testing the power supply with dummy loads, and there is the keyboard yet to be done, I'm awaiting the new pads. Then I'm going to have a go at repairing/testing some 16k memory cards then getting the Northstar controller board to work with two 360kB disk drives and Mike's VSG.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Yes! TI ICs from that era seem to be the worst offenders. I did the same cleaning and pin repair during my restoration.

                      I have some notes on mine at https://sites.google.com/site/retroborkenwerk/sol-20

                      including the power supply repair and keyboard refurbishment (I punched my own pads - quite easy.) Mike's site is very helpful and I followed much of what he did (although I didn't make his mod to the PSU.) The check-out procedures are reasonable in the manual, so be sure to take it slow and steady. My machine was super-glitchy and I traced this back to bad contacts in the sockets for U65, U66 - the data bus multiplexers, if I recall. I have the Sol running on a N*S controller and Shugart mini floppy with the VSG.

                      Good luck! Keep posting!

                      -eric

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by ef1j91 View Post
                        Yes! TI ICs from that era seem to be the worst offenders. I did the same cleaning and pin repair during my restoration.

                        I have some notes on mine at https://sites.google.com/site/retroborkenwerk/sol-20

                        -eric
                        Eric,

                        I must say that I like both your writing style and your restoration philosophies.

                        I have only recently started restoring vintage computers. I started with an IBM-5155 and now the SOL-20. I am actually a vintage television restorer, specializing in pre-WW2 TV sets, here is a typical one I have restored, as you can see it is a major undertaking to do it properly:

                        http://worldphaco.com/uploads/HMV__904_ARTICLE.pdf

                        In the same way that vintage computers with large whirring hard drives stirs up notions of the way the computer industry was in the early days, the same applies to television. One reason I wanted to restore a pre WW2 TV set is that I wanted to experience the result first hand, to understand what it would have been like back then. A bit of time travel into the past if you like. It is the same with vintage computers. It is a great feeling to get them up and running and feel & see just what they could do in those times. Computers are a different level again though, what you can do with them, even the early models, is only limited by your own imagination.

                        One other area I'm interested in is early TTL based video games, my favorite is Atari's arcade Pong. I designed a pcb for one with the 6 original hardware bugs removed and combined it with an Apple II monitor:

                        http://worldphaco.com/uploads/ARCADE_MINI-PONG.pdf

                        Hugo.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          These write-ups are great and now I want to build a TTL arcade Pong!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by ef1j91 View Post
                            These write-ups are great and now I want to build a TTL arcade Pong!
                            Eric,

                            Thank you for those remarks.

                            Before I made the mini pong (and figured out how to eliminate the six bugs which I have noted elsewhere are no distraction from the genius of the original design) I noticed that there had never been a detailed circuit analysis published on it. So I set about doing that and created a very long and detailed article on it:

                            http://worldphaco.com/uploads/LAWN_TENNIS.pdf

                            It turned out that the design gave the ball 42 states of motion.

                            The game's designer Mr. Allan Alcorn, contacted me after I published it and I was able to interview him and ask questions about the design and the decision making at the time that resulted in its final form.

                            I had also heard there was a fellow in Germany who had attempted to implement the entire game with an FPGA, though I have not seen the result of that or if it got finished.

                            Hugo.

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X