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GENDON3 improved character generator for the Model I Discussion

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    GENDON3 improved character generator for the Model I Discussion

    I found that one of my machines has both a Donmon 2.3 and a Gendon3 in it.

    This discussion focuses on the GENDON3.

    I have ripped the code from the 2716 Eprom and you can download it here: http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net....GenDon3-9E.bin

    This is how it looks installed in the computer:

    DSCF5212.jpg

    And here are some screen shots (Don's details have been covered over for privacy reasons):

    DSCF5208.jpgDSCF5209.jpgDSCF5210.jpg

    Notice it has proper looking lowercase descenders (check the 'y' in 'by' and 'System'), and a better looking comma.

    I'm looking into the feasibility of bringing this product back from the past, along with Donmon 2.3

    Discuss.

    Ian.
    Last edited by TRS-Ian; July 14, 2017, 09:51 PM.
    *There is never a charge for Tech Support even if you don't purchase from me - We are Enthusiasts Helping Other Enthusiast and that is just the way it is

    #2
    Ian,
    This is VERY INTERESTING! I've never heard of that Monitor that lives at 0x3000-0x37DF. Do you have more information
    about exactly what each command does? Like "TEST", what does it do? Also ASCII, will it give a Better view of all the
    ASCII Characters contained in GENDON3.BIN?

    I've downloaded the GENDON3.BIN file and will run it through my scripts and see if I can extract the the ASCII (& HEX) values
    of each Character in the EPROM. I'm curious if the 2716 contains two character sets, selectable by one strapped address line?
    It does have enough room available for that.

    Also, can you provide the wiring information from each Pin of the Original Character Generator Socket to each Pin of the
    2716. I assume it's not a standard wiring so that the eight Rows of each character cell are sequential in the Binary File.
    Most of the Lowercase ROM's, EPROM's, and such have the Rows at (Address, Address+0x200, Address+0x100,
    Address+0x300, Address+1, Address+0x201, Address+0x101, Address+0x301, Address+2, etc). This makes it hard
    to decode as only certain bits of each byte are used, and their order is jumbled.

    I've always wondered why there wasn't a Monitor available for the TRS-80's.

    THANKS.

    Larry
    Last edited by ldkraemer; July 14, 2017, 04:32 AM. Reason: typo

    Comment


      #3
      @Ian, Larry.

      Most interesting, but one small problem.
      These address space is used and decoded by the Quinnterface. /12288

      Comment


        #4
        generator character is wrong model? right>?

        Comment


          #5
          Hi Larry

          I have just found some info on Gendon3 (3 different dumps)

          https://www.dropbox.com/s/huirzdxvb1...t%201.zip?dl=0

          Ray
          If it ain't Broke then PLEASE DONT fix it.
          Procrastinators Unite.
          I keep telling you I am Not Pedantic.

          Comment


            #6
            It also would break some other things, I think MIRE/MISE use that area too and I've seen other things use it.

            If we could pick a different region it might be more viable.

            Comment


              #7
              I took a look at the bits in the .BIN file Ian posted.

              I can see these, plus some oddball bits in the right columns that don't look correct.

              gendon1-4.jpg

              Are these the same in the Model 1?


              Larry

              Comment


                #8
                Ian,
                I'm thinking that your EPROM read was corrupt as the following characters have several missing bits:

                X
                00001
                10001
                01010
                00100
                01010
                10001
                10001
                00000

                Y
                00001
                10001
                01010
                00100
                00100
                00100
                00100
                00000

                Z
                00001
                00001
                00010
                00100
                01000
                10000
                11111
                00000

                Larry
                Last edited by ldkraemer; July 14, 2017, 07:48 AM.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I agree with Larry. Ian seems to have a corrupted version of the "9E" dump in the collection Audronic posted. Below are renderings of Ian's dump; the "(J.R.) 6A", "Dash 61", and "9E" dumps; and a Radio Shack lower-case chip, part 8046673.

                  GENDON3.jpgGENDON3-JR-6A.jpgGENDON3-dash-61.jpgGENDON3-9E.jpgcg1-8007-8046673-f558d3b0.jpg

                  Is there some way I'm missing to post images here without them getting heavily crappified like that? These are simple 2.5 kbyte crystal-clear 798-by-742 PNG files that the site is insisting on mangling into blurry 265x246 JPEG monstrosities that use 10 times as much storage. What the hell does the forum software think it's accomplishing?

                  Anyway, here are those images as externally hosted at imgur.com (until the inevitable day when imgur.com suddenly disappears):




                  Last edited by Petrofsky; July 14, 2017, 04:49 PM. Reason: (fourth image was wrong in the imgur versions.)
                  -Alan

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Well spotted. I burned this dump to another 2716 and it displays corruption.

                    I need some help here...

                    Whats the best way to read the contents of the Gendon3 "4.6" 2716? I am using a G540 programmer to read the contents, then when I do a verify it says error.

                    When I put the Gendon3 back in the computer it reads perfect so I am 99% what is on the original chip is not corrupted.

                    Also, do people want me to start another thread on the Donmon 2.3 to separate out the two products?

                    Ian.
                    *There is never a charge for Tech Support even if you don't purchase from me - We are Enthusiasts Helping Other Enthusiast and that is just the way it is

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Hi Ian

                      I had to read the Eprom in the spare socket on the System-80 (Z13) Thanks to Andrew Quinn Pointing me in this direction, Thanks Andrew.
                      Take a dump under newdos and remove some bytes at the start xxxxx/CIM file
                      I was unable to read the same eprom on a G540 also

                      Ray
                      If it ain't Broke then PLEASE DONT fix it.
                      Procrastinators Unite.
                      I keep telling you I am Not Pedantic.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hi Ian et All

                        A Link to some Gendon info

                        https://www.dropbox.com/s/mbud8mszoy...0Info.pdf?dl=0

                        Ray
                        If it ain't Broke then PLEASE DONT fix it.
                        Procrastinators Unite.
                        I keep telling you I am Not Pedantic.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Last time I talked to Don he was still in Tullamarine, from memory he was retired and one of his kids was running the business.
                          If you are going to redo his project it might be worth talking to him.

                          https://www.shop-dontronics.com/

                          Edit: Verify errors like you describe are usually caused by oxidation on the IC legs. The IC works in circuit because the socket contacts the wide faces of the legs, your programmers zif socket makes contact with the narrower side edges of the legs.
                          Quick and dirty solution, press the eprom into a cheap dual wipe socket and put the eprom and socket into the zif socket of your programmer. The socket makes contact with the clean working edges of the eprom legs and offers a clean edge to the zif socket in the programmer.

                          Originally posted by TRS-Ian View Post
                          Well spotted. I burned this dump to another 2716 and it displays corruption.

                          I need some help here...

                          Whats the best way to read the contents of the Gendon3 "4.6" 2716? I am using a G540 programmer to read the contents, then when I do a verify it says error.

                          When I put the Gendon3 back in the computer it reads perfect so I am 99% what is on the original chip is not corrupted.

                          Also, do people want me to start another thread on the Donmon 2.3 to separate out the two products?

                          Ian.
                          Last edited by David_M; July 14, 2017, 05:13 PM.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I visited Don back in '13 when I was just starting to sell the FreHD. He was doing well and still running his business from home.

                            All his TRS-80 information and products and data sheets on it have long since disappeared. Sad but you can't keep everything and this is my chance to bring back some of his more popular products back from the dead.

                            I've looked at the three Gendon3 character sets above and I can't tell the difference. If someone can please let me know what the difference between Dash-61, 6A, and 9E.

                            Just now I burned 9E to a 2716 and installed it in the system, works great. Removing the corrupt BIN from my site and replacing it with 9E.

                            Ian.
                            *There is never a charge for Tech Support even if you don't purchase from me - We are Enthusiasts Helping Other Enthusiast and that is just the way it is

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Ian
                              Somewhere on the dead desktop is a copy of the Micro-80 lower case eprom.
                              If I can extract it from the hard drive I'll send you a copy
                              Gazza

                              Comment

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