Forum Rules and Etiquette

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This forum is part of our mission to promote the preservation of vintage computers through education and outreach. (In real life we also run events and have a museum.) We encourage you to join us, participate, share your knowledge, and enjoy.

This forum has been around in this format for over 15 years. These rules and guidelines help us maintain a healthy and active community, and we moderate the forum to keep things on track. Please familiarize yourself with these rules and guidelines.

Rule 1: Remain civil and respectful

There are several hundred people who actively participate here. People come from all different backgrounds and will have different ways of seeing things. You will not agree with everything you read here. Back-and-forth discussions are fine but do not cross the line into rude or disrespectful behavior.

Conduct yourself as you would at any other place where people come together in person to discuss their hobby. If you wouldn't say something to somebody in person, then you probably should not be writing it here.

This should be obvious but, just in case: profanity, threats, slurs against any group (sexual, racial, gender, etc.) will not be tolerated.

Rule 2: Stay close to the original topic being discussed
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To put things in engineering terms, we value a high signal to noise ratio. Coming here should not be a waste of time.
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Rule 4: "PM Sent!" messages (or, how to use the Private Message system)

This forum has a private message feature that we want people to use for messages that are not of general interest to other members.

In short, if you are going to reply to a thread and that reply is targeted to a specific individual and not of interest to anybody else (either now or in the future) then send a private message instead.

Here are some obvious examples of when you should not reply to a thread and use the PM system instead:
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Why do we have this policy? Sending a "PM Sent!" type message basically wastes everybody else's time by making them having to scroll past a post in a thread that looks to be updated, when the update is not meaningful. And the person you are sending the PM to will be notified by the forum software that they have a message waiting for them. Look up at the top near the right edge where it says 'Notifications' ... if you have a PM waiting, it will tell you there.

Rule 5: Copyright and other legal issues

We are here to discuss vintage computing, so discussing software, books, and other intellectual property that is on-topic is fine. We don't want people using these forums to discuss or enable copyright violations or other things that are against the law; whether you agree with the law or not is irrelevant. Do not use our resources for something that is legally or morally questionable.

Our discussions here generally fall under "fair use." Telling people how to pirate a software title is an example of something that is not allowable here.

Reporting problematic posts

If you see spam, a wildly off-topic post, or something abusive or illegal please report the thread by clicking on the "Report Post" icon. (It looks like an exclamation point in a triangle and it is available under every post.) This send a notification to all of the moderators, so somebody will see it and deal with it.

If you are unsure you may consider sending a private message to a moderator instead.

New user moderation

New users are directly moderated so that we can weed spammers out early. This means that for your first 10 posts you will have some delay before they are seen. We understand this can be disruptive to the flow of conversation and we try to keep up with our new user moderation duties to avoid undue inconvenience. Please do not make duplicate posts, extra posts to bump your post count, or ask the moderators to expedite this process; 10 moderated posts will go by quickly.

New users also have a smaller personal message inbox limit and are rate limited when sending PMs to other users.

Other suggestions
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'Prototype' Apple Lisa on ebay

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    'Prototype' Apple Lisa on ebay

    Interesting Lisa on ebay. Certainly an early production date. Not sure how true the provenance is. Is it worth $10k?

    Probably would go for that much or more if the provenance is accurate.

    Something about it feels wrong. But I trust whoever bids on it for that much will ask for close images of all the boards to make sure no chips other than those replaced by the upgrade were made after the purported build date and will check that the label is correctly aged.


      Didn't the original Lisa use Twiggy drives?
      Reach me: vcfblackhole _at_ protonmail dot com.


        According to the sticker (if it's accurate), it was the 67th Lisa manufactured.


          FREE SHIPPING!!!!

          There's no way that is a $10K machine right?
          It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes.


            I have never seen a Lisa with that label on the vertical part of that panel (visible from the front of the system), or with that style FCC label under the front.

            It may be that Apple did this on a prototype, but without any more supporting provenance, this is suspect to me.



              Even if the provenance is accurate, and the seller's description of it sounds reasonable and I'll accept it at face value, it's still just a Lisa 2, not working, missing parts. It has some interesting history and pre-production parts (again, taking the seller's word for it), but that does not make it worth anything beyond a good, working, complete Lisa 2. I would value this at no more than $2,000.

              Items are shipped from California west coast. Please consider shipping costs before responding with an offer. All transactions are private exchanges. All rights reserved.


                Can't speak for the rest of the world, but if I'm going to spend 10K, it better have proper documentation. Also, why would you put a serial number on a 'show & tell' prototype destined for the crusher?
                Surely not everyone was Kung-Fu fighting


                  Originally posted by Agent Orange View Post
                  Can't speak for the rest of the world, but if I'm going to spend 10K, it better have proper documentation. Also, why would you put a serial number on a 'show & tell' prototype destined for the crusher?
                  Well, I suppose after it's original use was fulfilled Apple could have just decided to assign a serial number to it and sell it. It was 'worth' $10k at the time I guess, Lord knows they could use every sale they could get for those things. I know from my Apple II documentation efforts Apple was not entirely consistent in how they did things.


                    The asking price is now down to "only" $7500. And note that the listing says "This machine Is currently non functional and is missing the the power supply and the system I/O board." So it's basically a hodge-podge parts machine, some of which may allegedly be from a prototype.


                      If this was a prototype, there should be mold marks that indicate as such. If the serial number is accurate, it's early and it may have been used as a demo/review unit. It still doesn't make it a prototype. I think the seller is trying to equate a build date being earlier than the release date meaning that it has to be a prototype. Digibarn also has pictures of a prototype but it doesn't have any labels or a serial number (as is expected).
                      Maintainer of