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This forum is part of our mission to promote the preservation of vintage computers through education and outreach. (In real life we also run events and have a museum.) We encourage you to join us, participate, share your knowledge, and enjoy.

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Should we add section for Pentium IV machines?

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    #16
    So if I run out today and buy a Microsoft Surface with a "Pentium Gold" CPU I have a "vintage" computer? Neat!
    My Retro-computing YouTube Channel (updates... eventually?): Paleozoic PCs Also: Blogspot

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      #17
      Originally posted by Eudimorphodon View Post

      Not being a Chrysler product it wasn't, but the GM J-Body was pretty much the same thing.

      By the standards of the time and the moribund state of the US automakers coming out of the 1970's the K-car was actually a "decent" piece of engineering, but that says more about the times than the car.
      My father was a mechanic at a Cadillac dealer. Even he claimed the Caddy was just a pimped out Chevrolet made for comfort. He always said he'd rather own a Lincoln instead of a Caddy. The Chrysler K cars were a joke. I had to rent one and it was severely underpowered.
      PDP-8 and PDP-11 enthusiast. But enjoy most older PC stuff too.

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        #18
        Originally posted by tradde View Post

        My father was a mechanic at a Cadillac dealer. Even he claimed the Caddy was just a pimped out Chevrolet made for comfort. He always said he'd rather own a Lincoln instead of a Caddy. The Chrysler K cars were a joke. I had to rent one and it was severely underpowered.
        Yeah but John Voight owned a Chrysler LeBaron...... so there you go...

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          #19
          Some of the turbocharged K-Car derivatives achieved V8 levels of performance. This one did 0-60 in 6.4 seconds, which is fast even by today's standards:



          And I vote for calling the subforum "Pentium and newer". Let the community decide what counts as "vintage", rather than impose an arbitrary cutoff. It's not like we're so overflowing with activity lately that we need to turn some people away.

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by tradde View Post
            The Chrysler K cars were a joke. I had to rent one and it was severely underpowered.
            The VW Golf GT Mk1 was one of the quickest and most nimble cars of the 1970's (again, this puts the whole era in pespective) but try telling that to someone who's sole experience with the platform was a Rabbit Diesel. Rental cars generally don't represent the best in breed for any vehicle.

            I chauffeured people and things around a lot for my job in a late 80's Plymouth Reliant in the early 1990's. It was... fine. For an 80's American car it was perfectly acceptable. And they had a better reliability reputation than some of their Ford and GM counterparts; those J-cars had an infamously bad automatic transmission for several years.
            My Retro-computing YouTube Channel (updates... eventually?): Paleozoic PCs Also: Blogspot

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              #21
              I prefer that categories cover reasonably related systems. Pentium II and earlier Pentium III systems share a lot in common with the later Pentium systems so the same problems and solutions and add-on cards were applicable to the whole range. Make the category too broad and it becomes twenty questions to find out exactly what system is being discussed before trying to solve an issue.

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                #22
                Originally posted by VERAULT View Post

                Yeah but John Voight owned a Chrysler LeBaron...... so there you go...
                For years, GM played the "shell game". If you needed a Chevy quarter-panel, you sometimes could substitute one from a Pontiac. Buicks and Caddies, similarly.
                Reach me: vcfblackhole _at_ protonmail dot com.

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by krebizfan View Post
                  I prefer that categories cover reasonably related systems. Pentium II and earlier Pentium III systems share a lot in common with the later Pentium systems so the same problems and solutions and add-on cards were applicable to the whole range. Make the category too broad and it becomes twenty questions to find out exactly what system is being discussed before trying to solve an issue.
                  Not quite. I have two Pentium II BX retail systems that also run PIII cpus... (Dell Optiplex GX1)

                  Originally posted by Chuck(G) View Post

                  For years, GM played the "shell game". If you needed a Chevy quarter-panel, you sometimes could substitute one from a Pontiac. Buicks and Caddies, similarly.
                  Sure even into the very early 2000's you could use parts from a Camaro on a transam Firebird....

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by VERAULT View Post
                    Not quite. I have two Pentium II BX retail systems that also run PIII cpus... (Dell Optiplex GX1)
                    Strictly speaking everything from Pentium Pro through the end of Pentium III was the same microarchitecture. PII added MMX, PIII added SSE. You start getting into hairsplitting territory after that about whether the Pentium M and early Core Duo count. (I would vote no because they essentially replaced the bus interface with one lifted off the Pentium IV which was *completely* different otherwise.)

                    Since "era" is probably more important than micro-architecture when it comes to platform discussions then I'd say one possible hard line for vintage belongs at PCI Express capable chipsets. (And the CPUs that go with them.)
                    Last edited by Eudimorphodon; September 13, 2021, 01:48 PM.
                    My Retro-computing YouTube Channel (updates... eventually?): Paleozoic PCs Also: Blogspot

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by VERAULT View Post

                      And my friends mother had a Cadillac Cimmaron.. Wasnt that a K-car?"
                      I knew a girl who had one of those, it was a pimped out Chevy cavalier actually.

                      What I collect: 68K/Early PPC Mac, DOS/Win 3.1 era machines, Amiga/ST, C64/128
                      Nubus/ISA/VLB/MCA/EISA cards of all types
                      Boxed apps and games for the above systems
                      Analog video capture cards/software and complete systems

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                        #26
                        Keeping it vintage. How "vintage" is it when you put a an XT-IDE controller in a 5156/60-70? I don't think the Pentium IV or M would have an overwhelming following here. I have a pristine Intel motherboard in its original packaging with the M, and it's been setting on the shelf for close to 20 years. That being said, I don't think an occasional query here and there would be out of order.
                        Surely not everyone was Kung-Fu fighting

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                          #27
                          There is an active community at Vogons. https://www.vogons.org/ Just go there.

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by Al Kossow View Post
                            There is an active community at Vogons. https://www.vogons.org/ Just go there.
                            You could point that statement at about 50% or so of what goes on here.

                            Surely not everyone was Kung-Fu fighting

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by Timo W. View Post
                              Let's rename "Pentium (First generation)" to "Pentium (1st to 3rd generation)" and all is well for the next few years to come.
                              I agree with this post. There is plenty of discussion at vogons for P4s up.
                              Thomas Byers (DRI)- "You'll have a million people using the A> [MS-DOS prompt] forever. You'll have five million using [nongraphic] menu systems such as Topview, Concurrent PC-DOS, Desq, and those types. But there'll be 50 to 100 million using the iconic-based interfaces."

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                                #30
                                A hard line-in-the-sand I find between older Pentiums and newer is support for SSE2. A lot of newer out-of-the-box software won't run on a CPU without SSE2 instructions (although most can be recompiled without SSE2 support, but that takes effort). I think it really defines a clear boundary between old and new, for now. The would exclude Pentium 4s and Ms, however: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSE2#CPU_support

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