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Forum Rules and Etiquette

Our mission ...

This forum is part of our mission to promote the preservation of vintage computers through education and outreach. (In real life we also run events and have a museum.) We encourage you to join us, participate, share your knowledge, and enjoy.

This forum has been around in this format for over 15 years. These rules and guidelines help us maintain a healthy and active community, and we moderate the forum to keep things on track. Please familiarize yourself with these rules and guidelines.


Rule 1: Remain civil and respectful

There are several hundred people who actively participate here. People come from all different backgrounds and will have different ways of seeing things. You will not agree with everything you read here. Back-and-forth discussions are fine but do not cross the line into rude or disrespectful behavior.

Conduct yourself as you would at any other place where people come together in person to discuss their hobby. If you wouldn't say something to somebody in person, then you probably should not be writing it here.

This should be obvious but, just in case: profanity, threats, slurs against any group (sexual, racial, gender, etc.) will not be tolerated.


Rule 2: Stay close to the original topic being discussed
  • If you are starting a new thread choose a reasonable sub-forum to start your thread. (If you choose incorrectly don't worry, we can fix that.)
  • If you are responding to a thread, stay on topic - the original poster was trying to achieve something. You can always start a new thread instead of potentially "hijacking" an existing thread.



Rule 3: Contribute something meaningful

To put things in engineering terms, we value a high signal to noise ratio. Coming here should not be a waste of time.
  • This is not a chat room. If you are taking less than 30 seconds to make a post then you are probably doing something wrong. A post should be on topic, clear, and contribute something meaningful to the discussion. If people read your posts and feel that their time as been wasted, they will stop reading your posts. Worse yet, they will stop visiting and we'll lose their experience and contributions.
  • Do not bump threads.
  • Do not "necro-post" unless you are following up to a specific person on a specific thread. And even then, that person may have moved on. Just start a new thread for your related topic.
  • Use the Private Message system for posts that are targeted at a specific person.


Rule 4: "PM Sent!" messages (or, how to use the Private Message system)

This forum has a private message feature that we want people to use for messages that are not of general interest to other members.

In short, if you are going to reply to a thread and that reply is targeted to a specific individual and not of interest to anybody else (either now or in the future) then send a private message instead.

Here are some obvious examples of when you should not reply to a thread and use the PM system instead:
  • "PM Sent!": Do not tell the rest of us that you sent a PM ... the forum software will tell the other person that they have a PM waiting.
  • "How much is shipping to ....": This is a very specific and directed question that is not of interest to anybody else.


Why do we have this policy? Sending a "PM Sent!" type message basically wastes everybody else's time by making them having to scroll past a post in a thread that looks to be updated, when the update is not meaningful. And the person you are sending the PM to will be notified by the forum software that they have a message waiting for them. Look up at the top near the right edge where it says 'Notifications' ... if you have a PM waiting, it will tell you there.

Rule 5: Copyright and other legal issues

We are here to discuss vintage computing, so discussing software, books, and other intellectual property that is on-topic is fine. We don't want people using these forums to discuss or enable copyright violations or other things that are against the law; whether you agree with the law or not is irrelevant. Do not use our resources for something that is legally or morally questionable.

Our discussions here generally fall under "fair use." Telling people how to pirate a software title is an example of something that is not allowable here.


Reporting problematic posts

If you see spam, a wildly off-topic post, or something abusive or illegal please report the thread by clicking on the "Report Post" icon. (It looks like an exclamation point in a triangle and it is available under every post.) This send a notification to all of the moderators, so somebody will see it and deal with it.

If you are unsure you may consider sending a private message to a moderator instead.


New user moderation

New users are directly moderated so that we can weed spammers out early. This means that for your first 10 posts you will have some delay before they are seen. We understand this can be disruptive to the flow of conversation and we try to keep up with our new user moderation duties to avoid undue inconvenience. Please do not make duplicate posts, extra posts to bump your post count, or ask the moderators to expedite this process; 10 moderated posts will go by quickly.

New users also have a smaller personal message inbox limit and are rate limited when sending PMs to other users.


Other suggestions
  • Use Google, books, or other definitive sources. There is a lot of information out there.
  • Don't make people guess at what you are trying to say; we are not mind readers. Be clear and concise.
  • Spelling and grammar are not rated, but they do make a post easier to read.
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Forum Issues, Let's work together to determine some details

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    Forum Issues, Let's work together to determine some details

    Hi all,
    I have been reading about forum issues and following the threads related. Thanks everyone for reporting in. Problem is, when I use the forum I don't have any slowness. So, I'd like to ask that we use this thread to help me track down the cause of the slowness. Please report issues as follows

    1. Date and time of the issue

    2. Function effected (for example: My reply post hangs after I submit, it took 45 seconds before the screen refreshed and my post appeared in the list")

    3. Basics of your set up (for example: Windows 10 with Firefox 59.0.2)

    4. Your location / name of your ISP or upstream provider

    NOTE: If you have a lot of tech details beyond this simple 4 point test, for now just hold onto that level of stuff. I am looking for a pattern more so than the details of a ping or tracert.

    Thanks
    Bill
    @ BillDeg:
    Web: vintagecomputer.net
    Twitter: @billdeg
    Youtube: @billdeg
    Unauthorized Bio

    #2
    this is a reply
    @ BillDeg:
    Web: vintagecomputer.net
    Twitter: @billdeg
    Youtube: @billdeg
    Unauthorized Bio

    Comment


      #3
      I hope that we all can get to the bottom of this slowness once and for all!

      Comment


        #4
        Loading this thread right now took 27 seconds. Actually I don't mean loading and displaying the whole page. It seems like the latency of the initial server response. But I don't have the means to narrow it that well at the moment.

        The trouble is though, that my ISP is FreedomPop, over the Sprint LTE network inside an electrically noisy metal building. I can consistently load thread pages on a completely different forum site running the same version of VBulletin faster. However, I don't think it's safe to say that I'm not experiencing latency due to my connection.

        Unfortunately I spend most of my time here in this situation. Now I can reasonably guess that the problem is on the server end due to the relative response times of other sites, but that still doesn't guarantee that I'm not having local latency at just the wrong times every time.

        Edit: hitting the Post button caused a 34 second delay and a "Stay on this page/leave" prompt. Hitting Stay caused my browser "NB Browser" to go unresponsive to this page; something I've never encountered before here, at all. Despite hitting Stay and then closing the browser, my post was actually posted.
        Be polite and I may let you live.

        https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...5NBVfKX5471R9U

        Comment


          #5
          FWIW, the forum works fine for me as well, on a variety of operating systems, browsers and devices (real computers with keyboards, none of that tablet or mobile crap!).
          Torfinn

          Comment


            #6
            Please try if you have issues to answer my four questions so I can make a case to the ISP, otherwise we're not going to get what we want. Please refer to the original post, thanks. The running theory at the moment is that the server itself is underpowered. It is also possible that the location of the server (Australia) can be causing lag issues with certain locations that are far away from it. I need to differentiate these two with consistent data, you know computer stuff.
            b
            @ BillDeg:
            Web: vintagecomputer.net
            Twitter: @billdeg
            Youtube: @billdeg
            Unauthorized Bio

            Comment


              #7
              Bill, a couple of years ago I had a similar performance issue with the website at my $dayjob, and we used Solarwinds Pingdom to help troubleshoot. The pingdom reports include a vast amount of information that can show you the performance, and their tools do a pretty good job of estimating CPU load on the server. I think they have a free 30-day trial, and I found the results in the first 30 days helped me fix the caching/disk issues I was having. I also ran several stress tests with ApacheBench (ab) to help troubleshoot the issue. Due to the network speed I have available to me, I won't run an ab stress test without permission on any server, as that could easily be construed as a DoS attack; but if I had permission I would be glad to help you stress the server (see my speedtest results below for my 'qualifications.')

              I have noted some slowness on two different connections with a couple of different devices, but it's intermittent on both. So I can't at the moment answer the time piece of your four questions, but here are the other three for my two connections:

              2.) All server interaction slows, and on my CentOS 7 laptop with Firefox I get the 'loading' rotating circle in the tab for a long time (20-45 seconds), and on my Samsung Galaxy S5 Chrome actually hangs and it slows the whole phone down for 10-30 seconds.

              3.) Setup: two different clients: Samsung Galaxy S5 phone with Chrome; Dell Precision M6700 Core i7-3740QM with 16GB RAM, running CentOS 7's Firefox 52 ESR default packages, with NoScript loaded.

              4.) ISP: three different scenarios, two ISP's:
              a: MCNC, 1Gb/s symmetric peak, 100Mb/s committed, Cisco 7609 edge router with dual Supervisor 720's, 1Gb/s ethernet to the desk, hardwired to the laptop. Speedtest.net goes crazy from my laptop, with download speeds typically in the 250Mb/s range and upload speeds in the 750Mb/s range (typical result: http://www.speedtest.net/result/7263354611 ). So it is not a network issue on my end.
              b: Comporium Communications: from my desk, 15Mb/s bidirectional with a Cisco 7609 edge router. From home, ADSL with 7Mb/s down and .5Mb/s up. Oddly enough I see the slowness more when I peek at VCF when I'm on break or eating lunch at my desk.

              Hope that helps.

              EDIT: PS, I used YSlow to help with some of the cache tuning, and image optimization, on my site.
              --
              Thus spake Tandy Xenix System III version 3.2: "Bughlt: Sckmud Shut her down Scotty, she's sucking mud again!"

              Comment


                #8
                This is the issue I know people are experiencing issues, I need to map when exactly.
                FYI just now it took about 20 seconds to load this thread when I called it from my email link.
                b
                @ BillDeg:
                Web: vintagecomputer.net
                Twitter: @billdeg
                Youtube: @billdeg
                Unauthorized Bio

                Comment


                  #9
                  1) Every couple of days, and Apr. 27th @ 10:28AM EST -0500 GMT (today)
                  2) Takes about a minute or two to open anything, and 30-45 seconds to open the Quick reply, post editor, etc.
                  3) Systems running Windows 98SE, XP, 7, 10, Linux, and Android (Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge) with up-to-date browsers on all of them (or out-of-date) - IE, Chrome, FireFox, and Edge (Win10 Pro) and updates installed
                  4) Verizon Wireless (Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge), Xfinity (home ISP) in SE Michigan
                  Sometimes it works, other times it sits there and eventually comes up.

                  Thank you guys for working on this issue and resolving every other issue with this site. Kudos to you!
                  Last edited by retro-pc_user; April 27, 2018, 08:29 AM. Reason: Entered time.
                  Current retro systems:
                  386/486DLC, AMS NotePro Plus DSTN
                  Packard Bell Pack-Mate 28 Plus
                  Toshiba Satellite Pro 410CDT, 2x IBM ThinkPad 380D (both TFT)
                  iMac G3/600 Graphite, iMac G4/800 Lampshade
                  YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/RetroPCUser

                  Comment


                    #10
                    please provide date and time exactly so that we can gather data and create a specific case that we can submit to the ISP for support purposes. For example

                    1. April 27th 10:47AM EST
                    2. Thread page load lagged for 20 seconds before loading
                    3. Using Windows Explorer 11
                    4. Verizon FIOS
                    @ BillDeg:
                    Web: vintagecomputer.net
                    Twitter: @billdeg
                    Youtube: @billdeg
                    Unauthorized Bio

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Ok, two actual data points, when replying to the Sun Ultra 5/10 thread with information about HVD versus SE SCSI:
                      1.) 4/27/2018 10:46AM (post: http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthrea...885#post512885 ).
                      2.) 45 seconds between clicking 'Post Quick Reply' and page reload after reply posted.
                      3.) Dell Precision M6700, Core i7-3740QM, Firefox 52ESR on CentOS 7.
                      4.) MCNC, 1Gb/s, Cisco 7609 edge router, North Carolina (multiple 100Gb/s uplinks to the Internet in Atlanta, GA; Charlotte, NC; Raleigh, NC; and Winston-Salem, NC.)

                      Data point number two:
                      1.) Reloading this thread, 4/27/2018 10:47 AM. Firefox's rotating circles in the tab had two distinct phases: the counter-clockwise rotating dot on a circle for 15 seconds, then the clockwise-rotating blue circle for about 20 seconds.
                      2 through 4: same as previous.

                      EDIT:
                      Data point number 3:
                      1.) Reloading this thread, 4/27/2018 11:15AM. Reload was nearly instantaneous, no rotating circles.
                      2 through 4: same as previous.
                      Last edited by lowen; April 27, 2018, 07:15 AM.
                      --
                      Thus spake Tandy Xenix System III version 3.2: "Bughlt: Sckmud Shut her down Scotty, she's sucking mud again!"

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Ok 4-27-18 12:11pm EST, I was replying to a tread http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthrea...os-be-upgraded
                        I hit the quick reply button. It took about 17 seconds and the screen changed to the Full post reply screen but my information was still populated in the text field. I hit submit and it showed my posting was duplicated.

                        I was replying to the thread the same way I do to all replies, nothing abnormal and I didnt hit the wrong button.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by billdeg View Post
                          The running theory at the moment is that the server itself is underpowered.
                          This can be easily verified by gathering metrics on the server. In all of the VCF, surely someone is a unix sysadmin by trade, yes? Even opening a shell window and checking the load average would be better than guessing...

                          If nobody on the VCF is a unix sysadmin, I can volunteer my time, contact me in a PM.
                          Offering a bounty for:
                          - A working Sanyo MBC-775 or Logabax 1600
                          - Music Construction Set, IBM Music Feature edition (has red sticker on front stating IBM Music Feature)

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I tried a few browsers on my system.
                            Firefox ESR and Palemoon 27.9 are fine, Chromium hangs when doing trying to do a reply seems to be a problem specific to that. Tor is slow alround.
                            This is on a Celeron 2.4 running Devuan Jessy i386
                            My ISP is SPARK here in NZ


                            Originally posted by KC9UDX View Post
                            Edit: hitting the Post button caused a 34 second delay and a "Stay on this page/leave" prompt.
                            Just had this happen. Selected leave and post was saved.
                            Apr 28 08:43 NZ time
                            Firefox ESR
                            Celeron 2.4 running Devuan Jessy i386
                            SPARK
                            Last edited by Caluser2000; April 27, 2018, 12:55 PM.
                            Thomas Byers (DRI)- "You'll have a million people using the A> [MS-DOS prompt] forever. You'll have five million using [nongraphic] menu systems such as Topview, Concurrent PC-DOS, Desq, and those types. But there'll be 50 to 100 million using the iconic-based interfaces."

                            Comment


                              #15
                              From today:

                              1. 15:14 CDT
                              2. Loading "New Posts" took 18 seconds (in the past, took only 1-2 seconds)
                              3. Windows 10 64-bit, Chrome
                              4. Chicago, USA, ISP: Wide Open West

                              1. 15:16 CDT
                              2. Clicking "go advanced" button to edit this thread took 12 seconds (in the past, took only 1-2 seconds)
                              3. Windows 10 64-bit, Chrome
                              4. Chicago, USA, ISP: Wide Open West

                              1. 15:18 CDT
                              2. Clicking "Save Changes" button took 19 seconds (in the past, took only 1-2 seconds)
                              3. Windows 10 64-bit, Chrome
                              4. Chicago, USA, ISP: Wide Open West

                              1. 22:25 CDT
                              2. Clicking a user handle then "View Forum Posts" took 28 seconds (in the past, took only 3-4 seconds)
                              3. Windows 10 64-bit, Chrome
                              4. Chicago, USA, ISP: Wide Open West
                              Last edited by Trixter; April 27, 2018, 07:27 PM.
                              Offering a bounty for:
                              - A working Sanyo MBC-775 or Logabax 1600
                              - Music Construction Set, IBM Music Feature edition (has red sticker on front stating IBM Music Feature)

                              Comment

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