Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules and Etiquette

Our mission ...

This forum is part of our mission to promote the preservation of vintage computers through education and outreach. (In real life we also run events and have a museum.) We encourage you to join us, participate, share your knowledge, and enjoy.

This forum has been around in this format for over 15 years. These rules and guidelines help us maintain a healthy and active community, and we moderate the forum to keep things on track. Please familiarize yourself with these rules and guidelines.


Rule 1: Remain civil and respectful

There are several hundred people who actively participate here. People come from all different backgrounds and will have different ways of seeing things. You will not agree with everything you read here. Back-and-forth discussions are fine but do not cross the line into rude or disrespectful behavior.

Conduct yourself as you would at any other place where people come together in person to discuss their hobby. If you wouldn't say something to somebody in person, then you probably should not be writing it here.

This should be obvious but, just in case: profanity, threats, slurs against any group (sexual, racial, gender, etc.) will not be tolerated.


Rule 2: Stay close to the original topic being discussed
  • If you are starting a new thread choose a reasonable sub-forum to start your thread. (If you choose incorrectly don't worry, we can fix that.)
  • If you are responding to a thread, stay on topic - the original poster was trying to achieve something. You can always start a new thread instead of potentially "hijacking" an existing thread.



Rule 3: Contribute something meaningful

To put things in engineering terms, we value a high signal to noise ratio. Coming here should not be a waste of time.
  • This is not a chat room. If you are taking less than 30 seconds to make a post then you are probably doing something wrong. A post should be on topic, clear, and contribute something meaningful to the discussion. If people read your posts and feel that their time as been wasted, they will stop reading your posts. Worse yet, they will stop visiting and we'll lose their experience and contributions.
  • Do not bump threads.
  • Do not "necro-post" unless you are following up to a specific person on a specific thread. And even then, that person may have moved on. Just start a new thread for your related topic.
  • Use the Private Message system for posts that are targeted at a specific person.


Rule 4: "PM Sent!" messages (or, how to use the Private Message system)

This forum has a private message feature that we want people to use for messages that are not of general interest to other members.

In short, if you are going to reply to a thread and that reply is targeted to a specific individual and not of interest to anybody else (either now or in the future) then send a private message instead.

Here are some obvious examples of when you should not reply to a thread and use the PM system instead:
  • "PM Sent!": Do not tell the rest of us that you sent a PM ... the forum software will tell the other person that they have a PM waiting.
  • "How much is shipping to ....": This is a very specific and directed question that is not of interest to anybody else.


Why do we have this policy? Sending a "PM Sent!" type message basically wastes everybody else's time by making them having to scroll past a post in a thread that looks to be updated, when the update is not meaningful. And the person you are sending the PM to will be notified by the forum software that they have a message waiting for them. Look up at the top near the right edge where it says 'Notifications' ... if you have a PM waiting, it will tell you there.

Rule 5: Copyright and other legal issues

We are here to discuss vintage computing, so discussing software, books, and other intellectual property that is on-topic is fine. We don't want people using these forums to discuss or enable copyright violations or other things that are against the law; whether you agree with the law or not is irrelevant. Do not use our resources for something that is legally or morally questionable.

Our discussions here generally fall under "fair use." Telling people how to pirate a software title is an example of something that is not allowable here.


Reporting problematic posts

If you see spam, a wildly off-topic post, or something abusive or illegal please report the thread by clicking on the "Report Post" icon. (It looks like an exclamation point in a triangle and it is available under every post.) This send a notification to all of the moderators, so somebody will see it and deal with it.

If you are unsure you may consider sending a private message to a moderator instead.


New user moderation

New users are directly moderated so that we can weed spammers out early. This means that for your first 10 posts you will have some delay before they are seen. We understand this can be disruptive to the flow of conversation and we try to keep up with our new user moderation duties to avoid undue inconvenience. Please do not make duplicate posts, extra posts to bump your post count, or ask the moderators to expedite this process; 10 moderated posts will go by quickly.

New users also have a smaller personal message inbox limit and are rate limited when sending PMs to other users.


Other suggestions
  • Use Google, books, or other definitive sources. There is a lot of information out there.
  • Don't make people guess at what you are trying to say; we are not mind readers. Be clear and concise.
  • Spelling and grammar are not rated, but they do make a post easier to read.
See more
See less

XTIDE Universal BIOS

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    There are some 16-bit controllers that just do not work in 8-bit mode, Have you got others you can try ?, Also try the build that James put together a while back, Download r443xt16.rar from Lo-tech http://www.lo-tech.co.uk/wiki/Lo-tech_8-bit_ROM_Board (scroll to the bottom of the page) it's old now but does work No need to change any settings just burn it to rom chip.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Krille View Post
      .... so the primary controller is by default set accordingly when building the BIOS
      Aha, I didn't realize that! Thank you very much!

      Some background: I have the source code and makefile of 2.0 V1 and when you compile everything using that makefile, you get the same file as found in the downloaded ZIP. The XT part in the makefile of the source code you can download now also contains the *_ADVANCED module. So I assumed that this is the default value. OK, I realized that the end result is not the same as the one in the ZIP. IIRC it is even longer. So it's possible that the ZIP file bin is compiled W/O the ADVANCED module.

      The reason why I want the ADVANCED module: the XT-CF card is IMHO nothing more than half a 16-bits IDE card with shifted registers and other addresses. The idea is to change the source code so I can use my AT FDC/IDE cards. I found some places where BX and DX are shifted that must not happen now. Them I found an addition that should not happen. And the addresses 51h..54h (IIRC) should be changed.
      With kind regards / met vriendelijke groet, Ruud Baltissen
      www.Baltissen.org

      Comment


        Originally posted by Malc View Post
        There are some 16-bit controllers that just do not work in 8-bit mode
        I even never heard of 16-bit controllers that can work in 8-bit mode. In the old days, before you had user added values, I was more concerned if the disk could be recognized by the computer.

        Also try the build that James put together a while back, Download r443xt16.rar ...
        I did. Didn't work with four different FDC/IDE controllers. That means playing with the source code myself.

        For James: May I ask what you the changes were you made for this BIN? Maybe I don't have to invent the wheel twice
        With kind regards / met vriendelijke groet, Ruud Baltissen
        www.Baltissen.org

        Comment


          Hi, that BIOS is configured to expect a standard IDE controller at the standard IO port addresses, but issues a SET FEATURES command to put the media in 8-bit transfer mode before attempting IDENTIFY DEVICE. Therefore, it can only work with ATA-2 compliant devices, which includes all CompactFlash media (with some exceptions, mostly recently industrial cards).

          Comment


            Originally posted by RuudB View Post
            Aha, I didn't realize that! Thank you very much!
            Just created another BIN including the ADVANCED module. But XTIDECFG didn't enable me to change the configuration (*) so I did it by hand: the addresses (300h and 308h) and type (04). Result: worked
            Next step: editing the source code to remove the XT-CF related parts regarding the registers, the addresses and the type. IMHO the type should be 6. To be sure, can anyone confirm this, please?

            (*) I still haven't found out why XTIDECFG will let me change the configuration of one bin and won't let me with another one. Who can explain this, please?

            Thank you very much I/A !
            With kind regards / met vriendelijke groet, Ruud Baltissen
            www.Baltissen.org

            Comment


              Originally posted by RuudB View Post
              Just created another BIN including the ADVANCED module. But XTIDECFG didn't enable me to change the configuration (*) so I did it by hand: the addresses (300h and 308h) and type (04). Result: worked
              Next step: editing the source code to remove the XT-CF related parts regarding the registers, the addresses and the type. IMHO the type should be 6. To be sure, can anyone confirm this, please?
              First, I don't know what you mean by "type"? Second, if it worked, why would you want to remove code? I guess I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish really.

              (*) I still haven't found out why XTIDECFG will let me change the configuration of one bin and won't let me with another one. Who can explain this, please?
              There is a version check that will prevent XTIDECFG from modifying the ROM variables of an incompatible version of the BIOS so you need to use a copy of XTIDECFG made from roughly the same SVN revision as the BIOS. I guess you tried to use an older version?
              Looking for a cache card for the "ICL ErgoPRO C4/66d V"

              Comment


                What 16-bit controllers have you got / tried ?

                Originally posted by RuudB View Post
                Didn't work with four different FDC/IDE controllers. That means playing with the source code myself.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Krille View Post
                  First, I don't know what you mean by "type"?
                  IDEVARS.bDevice

                  Second, if it worked, why would you want to remove code?
                  Forget that remark, wrong thought.

                  I guess I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish really.
                  The XT-CF card is an IDE interface, but only 8 bits wide. If you put a 16-bits IDE interface from an AT into a XT, you will end up with an interface that is only 8-bits wide. I don't own a XT-CF interface but having several AT IDE interface laying around, I thought it was cheaper (yes, I'm Dutch ) to alter Universal BIOS to make it think that it is handling a XT-CF.

                  I guess you tried to use an older version?
                  No, I'm very sure of that. But I'm also sure that it will turn out that it is something that I did wrong (again)
                  But it is not that important. My main goal is to create sources that at the end on their turn create the needed BIN. And DEBUG turned out to be a good friend as well.
                  Last edited by RuudB; February 12, 2014, 11:29 AM.
                  With kind regards / met vriendelijke groet, Ruud Baltissen
                  www.Baltissen.org

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by RuudB View Post
                    The XT-CF card is an IDE interface, but only 8 bits wide. If you put a 16-bits IDE interface from an AT into a XT, you will end up with an interface that is only 8-bits wide. I don't own a XT-CF interface but having several AT IDE interface laying around, I thought it was cheaper (yes, I'm Dutch to alter Universal BIOs to make it think that it is handling a XT-CF.
                    Right! So this is already supported in R566 using controller type "16-bit in 8-bit slot". Do not choose controller type XT-CF, as it uses different register address mapping.

                    You will need to build from source and exclude the late initialisation modules.

                    Also, the media supported is only ATA-2 compliant hard drives, Microdrives and CompactFlash. Standard 16-bit IDE hard-drives *will not work*, because they don't support 8-bit transfer mode.

                    Hope that helps!

                    Comment


                      Hallo James,

                      Originally posted by pearce_jj View Post
                      You will need to build from source and exclude the late initialisation modules.
                      One question: do I need the ADVANCED mode as well?

                      Anyway, I ran into an old problem. Remember an earlier post mentioning I couldn't configure my BIN? XTIDECFG won't work on the BINs I made by using MAKE and MAKEFILE. I'm only talking about the 8 KB XT ones because I'm not interested in the bigger or AT ones. But it does work on the BIN I extracted from the downloaded ZIP.

                      So I used XTIDECFG on the original IDE_XT.BIN and there I could change the configuration. I chose '8 bits' and the addresses were changed automatically. Then I compared the new file with the original one. Only 6 bytes had been changed:
                      - the addresses at 51h..54h
                      - the device type at 55h changed from 06h to 04h
                      - the checksum byte at 1FFFh changed

                      As next step I created two XT BINs, both W/O the LATE_INITIALIZATION, one with and one W/O the ADVANCED module. Using the editor of my programmer I changed the six bytes mentioned above.

                      For the rest I can be short: neither BIN was able to recognize the CF card

                      Did I miss something?
                      With kind regards / met vriendelijke groet, Ruud Baltissen
                      www.Baltissen.org

                      Comment


                        No, Just try the XT_Tiny build MODULE_STRINGS_COMPRESSED MODULE_8BIT_IDE Should work, Works on my Cards anyways.

                        Originally posted by RuudB View Post
                        One question: do I need the ADVANCED mode as well?

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Malc View Post
                          ... Should work, Works on my Cards anyways.
                          No, it didn't. But to make a very long story short: during all those test I used a CF card that isn't ATA-2 compatible! This card is a TwinMOS Ultra-X 256 MB. Just in case some of you find one.

                          The moment I started to use a Transcend CF 128 MB, things looked different: it was recognized. But unfortunately it wasn't the end of my trouble, moments after starting up FDISK I got an error: error while reading the fixed disk (translated from Dutch). Changing the card for other sizes/brands didn't help.

                          But I wanted to have the boot menu anyway so I created my own BIN: MODULE_HOTKEYS MODULE_BOOT_MENU MODULE_8BIT_IDE. And... things worked like a charm

                          So at the end it seems that all the stress I had and also put on you was caused by an incompatible CF card!

                          But two questions remain:
                          - why doesn't XTIDECFG work?
                          - what causes the FDISK error when only using the TINY module?
                          I'm just asking out of curiousity, I don't need XTIDECFG actually and I'm happy with the working configuration

                          And thank you all for your help and patience !!!
                          Last edited by RuudB; February 14, 2014, 04:45 AM.
                          With kind regards / met vriendelijke groet, Ruud Baltissen
                          www.Baltissen.org

                          Comment


                            Great! You need to build xtidecfg along with the BIOS image from the same revision. Hope that helps!

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by RuudB View Post
                              - why doesn't XTIDECFG work?
                              Like Krille and James said build a new copy of XTIDECFG from the same revision of the SVN Bios, If you use an older version of XTIDECFG on a newer Bios it likely won't work, Same goes for a newer version of XTIDECFG on an older Bios.

                              Originally posted by RuudB View Post
                              - what causes the FDISK error when only using the TINY module?
                              It used to work with the XT_TINY build but i just tried it on a spare raw CF card connected to my XT-IDE REV 1 card and a 16-bit IDE/Floppy card and the Bios R566 saw the CF card but when i ran FDISK it reported " No Fixed Disk Present ", I Re-built the bios adding MODULE_HOTKEYS and went on to FDISK / Partition and format the card with no problems. I don't know what's happened there maybe a change somewhere down the line.

                              Anyways you got there in the end

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Malc View Post
                                It used to work with the XT_TINY build but i just tried it on a spare raw CF card connected to my XT-IDE REV 1 card and a 16-bit IDE/Floppy card and the Bios R566 saw the CF card but when i ran FDISK it reported " No Fixed Disk Present ", I Re-built the bios adding MODULE_HOTKEYS and went on to FDISK / Partition and format the card with no problems. I don't know what's happened there maybe a change somewhere down the line.
                                Ruud and Malc, thank you both for finding and verifying this bug! MODULE_HOTKEYS and MODULE_BOOT_MENU both include MODULE_DRIVEXLATE and I suspect that not including this module is somehow causing the problem.

                                If you feel like testing this, try adding only MODULE_DRIVEXLATE to the DEFINES_XT_TINY line in the makefile.
                                Looking for a cache card for the "ICL ErgoPRO C4/66d V"

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X