Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules and Etiquette

Our mission ...

This forum is part of our mission to promote the preservation of vintage computers through education and outreach. (In real life we also run events and have a museum.) We encourage you to join us, participate, share your knowledge, and enjoy.

This forum has been around in this format for over 15 years. These rules and guidelines help us maintain a healthy and active community, and we moderate the forum to keep things on track. Please familiarize yourself with these rules and guidelines.


Rule 1: Remain civil and respectful

There are several hundred people who actively participate here. People come from all different backgrounds and will have different ways of seeing things. You will not agree with everything you read here. Back-and-forth discussions are fine but do not cross the line into rude or disrespectful behavior.

Conduct yourself as you would at any other place where people come together in person to discuss their hobby. If you wouldn't say something to somebody in person, then you probably should not be writing it here.

This should be obvious but, just in case: profanity, threats, slurs against any group (sexual, racial, gender, etc.) will not be tolerated.


Rule 2: Stay close to the original topic being discussed
  • If you are starting a new thread choose a reasonable sub-forum to start your thread. (If you choose incorrectly don't worry, we can fix that.)
  • If you are responding to a thread, stay on topic - the original poster was trying to achieve something. You can always start a new thread instead of potentially "hijacking" an existing thread.



Rule 3: Contribute something meaningful

To put things in engineering terms, we value a high signal to noise ratio. Coming here should not be a waste of time.
  • This is not a chat room. If you are taking less than 30 seconds to make a post then you are probably doing something wrong. A post should be on topic, clear, and contribute something meaningful to the discussion. If people read your posts and feel that their time as been wasted, they will stop reading your posts. Worse yet, they will stop visiting and we'll lose their experience and contributions.
  • Do not bump threads.
  • Do not "necro-post" unless you are following up to a specific person on a specific thread. And even then, that person may have moved on. Just start a new thread for your related topic.
  • Use the Private Message system for posts that are targeted at a specific person.


Rule 4: "PM Sent!" messages (or, how to use the Private Message system)

This forum has a private message feature that we want people to use for messages that are not of general interest to other members.

In short, if you are going to reply to a thread and that reply is targeted to a specific individual and not of interest to anybody else (either now or in the future) then send a private message instead.

Here are some obvious examples of when you should not reply to a thread and use the PM system instead:
  • "PM Sent!": Do not tell the rest of us that you sent a PM ... the forum software will tell the other person that they have a PM waiting.
  • "How much is shipping to ....": This is a very specific and directed question that is not of interest to anybody else.


Why do we have this policy? Sending a "PM Sent!" type message basically wastes everybody else's time by making them having to scroll past a post in a thread that looks to be updated, when the update is not meaningful. And the person you are sending the PM to will be notified by the forum software that they have a message waiting for them. Look up at the top near the right edge where it says 'Notifications' ... if you have a PM waiting, it will tell you there.

Rule 5: Copyright and other legal issues

We are here to discuss vintage computing, so discussing software, books, and other intellectual property that is on-topic is fine. We don't want people using these forums to discuss or enable copyright violations or other things that are against the law; whether you agree with the law or not is irrelevant. Do not use our resources for something that is legally or morally questionable.

Our discussions here generally fall under "fair use." Telling people how to pirate a software title is an example of something that is not allowable here.


Reporting problematic posts

If you see spam, a wildly off-topic post, or something abusive or illegal please report the thread by clicking on the "Report Post" icon. (It looks like an exclamation point in a triangle and it is available under every post.) This send a notification to all of the moderators, so somebody will see it and deal with it.

If you are unsure you may consider sending a private message to a moderator instead.


New user moderation

New users are directly moderated so that we can weed spammers out early. This means that for your first 10 posts you will have some delay before they are seen. We understand this can be disruptive to the flow of conversation and we try to keep up with our new user moderation duties to avoid undue inconvenience. Please do not make duplicate posts, extra posts to bump your post count, or ask the moderators to expedite this process; 10 moderated posts will go by quickly.

New users also have a smaller personal message inbox limit and are rate limited when sending PMs to other users.


Other suggestions
  • Use Google, books, or other definitive sources. There is a lot of information out there.
  • Don't make people guess at what you are trying to say; we are not mind readers. Be clear and concise.
  • Spelling and grammar are not rated, but they do make a post easier to read.
See more
See less

8088 Domination: A new FMV method for 8088 PCs

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #46
    What's even weirder here is that the 8088 Domination colors are shifted, but the WHICHCGA colors aren't -- that last shot looks entirely consistent with an "old"-style IBM CGA.

    I can only guess that the composite output on this CDP card changes the pixel clock/color carrier phase difference in mode 6 (8088dom) as opposed to mode 4 (whichcga). Which would be unusual, but not unheard of... the Tandy 1000 shows a similar difference in hue shifts between modes.
    int10h.org :: :: :: blog

    Comment


      #47
      Originally posted by el_VR View Post
      What's even weirder here is that the 8088 Domination colors are shifted, but the WHICHCGA colors aren't -- that last shot looks entirely consistent with an "old"-style IBM CGA.
      I think that's because WHICHCGA is in text mode and uses direct colours whereas 8088 Domination uses graphics mode and artifact colours. The direct colours have the normal phase relationship with each other (and in particular with colour 6 which is used for the color burst) but they have a different relationship with the pixel grid so the artifact colours are different.

      Comment


        #48
        Originally posted by reenigne View Post
        I think that's because WHICHCGA is in text mode and uses direct colours whereas 8088 Domination uses graphics mode and artifact colours.
        It's not that - WhichCGA is mode 4 and uses both direct and artifact colors (I didn't find purely direct color combinations to be as useful in distingushing the models). In RGB it looks like this:
        whichcga_000.png

        The top part exploits artifacting, so I would've expected it to look different on SomeGuy's card vs. the corresponding IBM cards, but it's the same... while 8088 Domination isn't, hence my conjecture above. That said, I'm fully prepared to facepalm in case I'm overlooking something obvious
        int10h.org :: :: :: blog

        Comment


          #49
          Originally posted by el_VR View Post
          The top part exploits artifacting, so I would've expected it to look different on SomeGuy's card vs. the corresponding IBM cards, but it's the same...
          Oh, huh - weird. It could be that the phase shift just happens to make only a very small difference for these particular patterns. Or it could be that the phase shift only occurs in 1bpp mode.

          Comment


            #50
            Searching around I found the "16rows" tool here: http://www.seasip.info/VintagePC/cga.html#ccomp

            This gives me a good test of all of the artifact colors at the same time. Using this, I was able to adjust my hue to make this and 8088dom look about right. But then, of course, the text colors look a bit off.

            16rows01.jpg
            This is what it was giving me before the hue adjustment.

            16rows_vbox.jpg
            And this is a color reference from DOSBOX.

            Good enough for now. I'm just adding this this information because there is so little information out there about the CDP 1600.

            Oh, and Trixter, 8088dom is awesome!

            Edit: and as it turns out, the optimal interleave for this controller on this machine is 5 despite what spinrite says. Now it keeps up just fine.
            Last edited by SomeGuy; June 26, 2014, 10:38 PM.

            Comment


              #51
              I'm not sure how applicable it is to this demo, but I just realized something:

              Provided there's some spare RAM in the 0xC800 or 0xB800 segment from another expansion card (such as Hercules), isn't it possible to use a mem-to-mem* DMA xfer to speed up rendering even further? Or would the overhead of the transfer cancel out any gains?

              *Limited to in-segment xfers.
              Looking for: Needham's Electronics PB-10 Microcontroller Adapter (looking for one since early 2012!).

              Comment


                #52
                Memory-to-memory DMA transfers operate using two bus cycles (read then write), so the performance should be the same as with a V20. However there is a lot of set up overhead, especially when dealing with small areas (it might be slightly faster than an 8088 transferring 8 or 16KB though).

                Trixters latest encoder makes use of rep stosw a lot (IIRC) for run-length encoding, so each word takes 11 clocks (just under 3 bus cycles).

                Comment


                  #53
                  Originally posted by SomeGuy View Post
                  Searching around I found the "16rows" tool here: http://www.seasip.info/VintagePC/cga.html#ccomp

                  This gives me a good test of all of the artifact colors at the same time. Using this, I was able to adjust my hue to make this and 8088dom look about right. But then, of course, the text colors look a bit off.

                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]19211[/ATTACH]
                  This is what it was giving me before the hue adjustment.

                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]19214[/ATTACH]
                  And this is a color reference from DOSBOX.

                  Good enough for now. I'm just adding this this information because there is so little information out there about the CDP 1600.

                  Oh, and Trixter, 8088dom is awesome!

                  Edit: and as it turns out, the optimal interleave for this controller on this machine is 5 despite what spinrite says. Now it keeps up just fine.
                  A nice feature of those programs is that they allow you to set each bit of the Mode Control and Color Select Registers independently. 0-5 on the keyboard will set bits 0-5 of the Mode Control Register, and letters A-F will set bits 0-5 of the Color Select Register. This way, you can test every possible combination of colors in color composite mode.
                  My Retro Computing and Vintage Gaming Blog : http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Duuuuuuuuuuuude.... That's awesome..
                    Nothing beats the roar of a 36yr old drive coming to life after a decade in storagg

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Sorry for the thread bump, but here is my homage to Trixter's work:



                      It's a 5150 motherboard with a CGA and a SBpro2 with a tiny 3,5'' composite video lcd, running 8088 Domination.





                      I hope you like it

                      Comment


                        #56
                        I'm speechless. Seriously, I've never had my software turned into an art installation before. This is a really wonderful birthday present

                        Now I really need to get the source/.exe/docs released. I'll work on it this weekend, promise!
                        Offering a bounty for:
                        - A working Sanyo MBC-775 or Logabax 1600
                        - Music Construction Set, IBM Music Feature edition (has red sticker on front stating IBM Music Feature)

                        Comment


                          #57
                          I've finally released everything: Source, binaries, some example files, and most importantly documentation. Head over to http://x86dc.wordpress.com/ for everything. Now everyone who wants to create a video for their vintage PCs with CGA can do so, and I'm sure all three of you will enjoy that very much The documentation for the compiler also has a link to a screencast where I walk through the conversion of a video from start to finish.

                          I apologize for how much preprocessing is necessary; if an enterprising programmer (Mike Chambers, I'm looking at you) wants to make a "helper" utility that will accept an .AVI and spit out frames and a script, I would happily add it to the site to make the process easier for everyone.
                          Offering a bounty for:
                          - A working Sanyo MBC-775 or Logabax 1600
                          - Music Construction Set, IBM Music Feature edition (has red sticker on front stating IBM Music Feature)

                          Comment


                            #58
                            Those are great news, I'll check it asap

                            Comment


                              #59
                              Originally posted by Trixter View Post
                              I've finally released everything: Source, binaries, some example files, and most importantly documentation. Head over to http://x86dc.wordpress.com/ for everything. Now everyone who wants to create a video for their vintage PCs with CGA can do so, and I'm sure all three of you will enjoy that very much The documentation for the compiler also has a link to a screencast where I walk through the conversion of a video from start to finish.

                              I apologize for how much preprocessing is necessary; if an enterprising programmer (Mike Chambers, I'm looking at you) wants to make a "helper" utility that will accept an .AVI and spit out frames and a script, I would happily add it to the site to make the process easier for everyone.
                              Sweet!! Yeah, I might start on that this weekend. First I'm going to play with encoding some videos. I've been waiting for this.

                              I'm thinking about making a native Windows player for the video files. Is there documentation of the format available? Since the frame data is executable code, I could rip the CPU core from Fake86 and base it around that.
                              sigpic

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Originally posted by Mike Chambers View Post
                                I'm thinking about making a native Windows player for the video files. Is there documentation of the format available? Since the frame data is executable code, I could rip the CPU core from Fake86 and base it around that.
                                The file format description in one of the source files contains everything you need, however there is a generic unix player that may be quicker and easier to implement than a full emulation core, since the number of instructions I use in the output are limited.
                                Offering a bounty for:
                                - A working Sanyo MBC-775 or Logabax 1600
                                - Music Construction Set, IBM Music Feature edition (has red sticker on front stating IBM Music Feature)

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X