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DOS Networking Client

S

Shadow Lord

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
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Hello All,

I just wanted to pick the hive mind to see what people use/prefer as a client for DOS networking. Basically here is my situation:

I have a Win2K3 server which serves as a NAS to all of my machines modern, vintage, mac, or PC. Obviously the modern machines connect directly through their OS (OS 9/X and Win7) networking services over TCP/IP w/out issues. My 486 system (the Everex STEP Megacube) can access the network through either WfW 3.11 or MS Lanman 2.2c in DOS mode. Of course the two don't seem to coexist well (or at least I can't get them to play nice) but it does the trick. I can access the server, map network drives, set the time off the time server, etc.

As i mentioned one issue I have with Lanman is getting it to run with WfW: i.e. I can either have WfW's networking working or the DOS one working. If I have networking started through DOS, WfW throws up an error. Also changes in setup in one or the other breaks the other one. The other issue is memory usage. Lanman (even with a basic client) is a massive memory hog.

i wanted to know if anyone has experience with MS Client 3.0? Does it have a smaller memory footprint? Does it run well on older machines (5150/5160)? Which would you guys recommend for the above scenario (connecting to and using network drives off of a Win2K3 server)?

Thanks,
 
Lan Client would use less resources, since if you're using Lan Manager, it's meant to manage a network, not just access it. Exactly what error does WFW show?

I'm not for sure, but I don't think MS Lan Client would run on a 5150/60, simply because of the memory overloads. Maybe try mTCP on those machines? Except for the 5150.
 
marcoguy said:
TCP/IP is a huge memory hog. You probably want to use another protocol.
Click to expand...

Can you explain what you're thinking about? Doesn't the TCP/IP just take up a small buffer? As for applications, that will be variable and run from a few K to whatever. mTCP applications all run under 250K usage.
 
I'm talking about the apps associated with the protocol. Most of them aren't really meant for computers that don't have 3Mb+ ram. TCP/IP is a newer protocol, so programs for it are for newer computers. (New is a relative term! :D) I wasn't thinking of mTCP, actually.
 
I mean that things like actual programs that connect to it in DOS and are actually useful to a person with a somewhat normal knowledge of computers.
 
DOS lives on!! said:
Lan Client would use less resources, since if you're using Lan Manager, it's meant to manage a network, not just access it. Exactly what error does WFW show?

I'm not for sure, but I don't think MS Lan Client would run on a 5150/60, simply because of the memory overloads. Maybe try mTCP on those machines? Except for the 5150.
Click to expand...

I am not at home to check but it basically runs akin to: "You have networking started from outside of windows. This disables some features". However, networking through WfW still works.

As far as the clients they should both run on 8088 machines as long as you don't use the full redirectors. The minimum system req. per MS are:

Code: 
Both clients have the following minimum requirements:
  - Intel 8088 or higher processor (80286 for full redirectors)
  - 640 kilobytes (K) RAM
  - 1 megabyte (MB) free hard disk space
  - Supported network interface card
  - MS-DOS version 3.3 or higher
  - Windows version 3.1x is optional (should not be used with Windows for  Workgroups)

As far as mTCP - mTCP is very specific (and good) at what it does. Unfortunately it does not allow me to use resources across my MS network.
 
Are you running LanMan on a machine with WfW installed??

WFW comes with it's own command line NET command - you can mount drives (NET USE), log on to domains (NET LOGON) etc, and when you type "NET STOP WORKSTATION" your memory comes back to you :) I actually put the NET LOGON and NET STOP WORKSTATION commands in to my menu (for those times I don't want to start Windows but want to copy files).


If you are talking about seperate machines, just make sure the Windows box is the browse master. For mysetup I used a Windows 2000 Server and set it up to be a primary WINS host, and domain controller.

To solve the memory issue with LanMan make batch files to initialise the network and remove entries from autoexec.bat (or for DOS 622 use bootmenus). So you can login, copy your stuff to hard disc, reboot and play. I'm yet to find a DOS network proggie that can read file shares from a modern PC without sufficating it of RAM.

Edit: by 'read' I mean 'mount', I like using XTGold for my copy shinnanigans
Edit2: despite efforts, I couldn't get domain authentication over NetBEUI and the memory usage wasn't much diff with LanMan
 
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marcoguy said:
I mean that things like actual programs that connect to it in DOS and are actually useful to a person with a somewhat normal knowledge of computers.
Click to expand...

Huh?

The issue of memory isn't related to the system. When I say Lanman is a memory hog I am talking about how much conventional memory it is using. On my Everex I have 64MB of memory but I still can't run many programs and have Lanman loaded. I think it uses about 200KB of conventional memory.
 
Shadow Lord said:
As far as mTCP - mTCP is very specific (and good) at what it does. Unfortunately it does not allow me to use resources across my MS network.
Click to expand...

mTCP has:

  • a DHCP client
  • an FTP client
  • an FTP server
  • a Telnet client
  • an IRC client
  • the Netcat utility
  • ping
  • an SNTP client (for setting the time from a network time server)
  • htget for fetching files from an HTTP server

Not very specific at all. But yes, it does not provide access to SMB shares via a drive letter ...

I use the MS LAN client on my 386 once in a while - it has it's uses. But I am a lot happier with FTPing what I need to the machine when I need it instead of having the MS client burn all of that memory - it is quite a pig.

And if you are on an 8088 class machine, your options are very limited. The older Novell network clients work if you have a Novell server around. That's about it.
 
SpidersWeb said:
Are you running LanMan on a machine with WfW installed??

WFW comes with it's own command line NET command - you can mount drives (NET USE), log on to domains (NET LOGON) etc, and when you type "NET STOP WORKSTATION" your memory comes back to you :) I actually put the NET LOGON and NET STOP WORKSTATION commands in to my menu (for those times I don't want to start Windows but want to copy files).


If you are talking about seperate machines, just make sure the Windows box is the browse master. For mysetup I used a Windows 2000 Server and set it up to be a primary WINS host, and domain controller.

To solve the memory issue with LanMan make batch files to initialise the network and remove entries from autoexec.bat (or for DOS 622 use bootmenus). So you can login, copy your stuff to hard disc, reboot and play. I'm yet to find a DOS network proggie that can read file shares from a modern PC without sufficating it of RAM.

Edit: by 'read' I mean 'mount', I like using XTGold for my copy shinnanigans
Edit2: despite efforts, I couldn't get domain authentication over NetBEUI and the memory usage wasn't much diff with LanMan
Click to expand...

Yes, I have Lanman on a system w/ WfW which is a no no ;). I do plan on using DOS boot menus at a later stage to achieve separation between different duties (Windows/Gaming/Networking/etc.). But even in that scenario if I can maximize conventional memory in any given "boot menu option" that would be a bonus. I may have to do as you suggest and constantly turn on and off the network services w/ a batch file no matter the client I end up using.
 
One of the best things about DOS 6.x is "memmaker"
(assuming you have a 386, and DOS 6.x)

Optimises your startup and agressively scans 640-1024Kb to find any memory to shove things in.
 
If you're using an 8088 system, you can configure things so that lanman can be activated via a CONFIG.SYS menu, if you're using a late-enough version of MS-DOS. An EMS 4.0 card helps some, as lanman can use some of that memory.
 
Shadow Lord said:
....i wanted to know if anyone has experience with MS Client 3.0? Does it have a smaller memory footprint? Does it run well on older machines (5150/5160)? Which would you guys recommend for the above scenario (connecting to and using network drives off of a Win2K3 server)?

Thanks,
Click to expand...
I use MS Network Client with the Netbeui protocol on my XT. It works great sharing resources between my XT and my P4 laptop with Windows XP. I have not been able to get the netbeui protocol working completely on Windows Vista or 7. Also, MS network client can be made to run as a server, but performance is very slow as a server.

the memory used is as follows;
IFSHLP = 3,952 (4K)
PROTMAN = 400 (0K) protocol manager?
EXP16 = 7,968 (8K) packet driver
NDISHLP = 1440 (1K)
NETBEUI = 37,792 (37K) protocol
BASIC = 13,696(13K) redirector

65248(64k)

Not to bad, and most of that be loaded hi if you have UMB's

Of course, I use mTCP, when I really want to save ram and don't need the network shares.
 
The usual question: is Intersvr running in a VM an option? The Interlnk client uses 8kB, all in upper memory if you've got it.
 
MikeS said:
The usual question: is Intersvr running in a VM an option? The Interlnk client uses 8kB, all in upper memory if you've got it.
Click to expand...

Honestly, the point isn't just to copy files. As Mike pointed out I could just use mFTP w/ an FTP server for that. I want to be able to directly access my server shares as I do on my other computers using my regular directory structure. As has been pointed out I may just have to settle for a multi-boot option to get around memory issues.


ibmapc said:
I use MS Network Client with the Netbeui protocol on my XT. It works great sharing resources between my XT and my P4 laptop with Windows XP. I have not been able to get the netbeui protocol working completely on Windows Vista or 7. Also, MS network client can be made to run as a server, but performance is very slow as a server.

the memory used is as follows;
IFSHLP = 3,952 (4K)
PROTMAN = 400 (0K) protocol manager?
EXP16 = 7,968 (8K) packet driver
NDISHLP = 1440 (1K)
NETBEUI = 37,792 (37K) protocol
BASIC = 13,696(13K) redirector

65248(64k)

Not to bad, and most of that be loaded hi if you have UMB's

Of course, I use mTCP, when I really want to save ram and don't need the network shares.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. It seems much leaner then MS Lanman. I'll haveto install it and see how well it behaves.
 
Shadow Lord said:
Honestly, the point isn't just to copy files.
Click to expand...
???

Interlink isn't just a pretty face; it maps your remote drive(s) and printer(s) to local ones just like a 'normal' network and on a slow machine the speed difference isn't that big an issue, often well worth it for the 8k/0k footprint. The only catch is that AFAIK you can't access CD/DVD drives on the server; of course you need a dedicated pair of ports & cable (or a terminal server) and it's one-way.

What do you need that it doesn't provide?

People tend to forget that in 'the old days' before Netscape/Ethernet etc. folks were happily running peer-to-peer and client-server networks using serial ports.

e.g.:
Code: 
D:\>interlnk                                                                    
                                                                                
    Port=COM1                                                                   
                                                                                
    This Computer        Other Computer                                         
      (Client)              (Server)                                            
    -------------   -------------------------                                   
      F:    equals    A:                                                        
      G:    equals    C: (106Mb) AR                                             
      H:    equals    D: (526Mb) SMI_D                                          
      I:    equals    E: (2146Mb)SMICL_E                                        
      J:    equals    F: (2146Mb)SMICL_F                                        
      K:    equals    G: (2146Mb)SMICL_G                                        
      L:    equals    H: (1340Mb)SMICL_H                                        
      M:    equals    I: (33Mb)  MS-RAMDRIVE                                    
      LPT2: equals    LPT1:                                                     
                                                                                
D:\>
 
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