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Polish computers in American/Stasi Archives?

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    Polish computers in American/Stasi Archives?

    Hi and thank You for sharing in advance. I am generally looking for info about Polish computers, and after seeing(legally) released for public papers about EC systems, I think that American or even NRD(GDR)/Stasi Archives can contain some info about vintage Polish computers. Especially would be great finding for example scheme of Elwro 700 Solum, or Elwro 600. Maybe is wrong thinking but Elwro was one of the biggest companies in Poland, sometimes called "Polish IBM", and in country where the whole month salary at late communism times was worth for example 10$ probably were people who were sending info across the iron curtain. Also these computers have less computing power than modern smartwatch, so maybe somebody released it to public, for historic interest.
    Last edited by pgru2; October 15, 2021, 12:04 AM.

    #2
    As far as I can tell, the US interest in Eastern Bloc computers mainly focused on mainframe and minis, i.e. those with expected major military uses. Educational machines like the Elwro 700 were only included in economic estimates of how closely the announced plan of production was matched by real units. I haven't read every paper released publicly and don't know what was not released so it is possible there is something more. Send a request to the public email address. Museum curators like to brag about their catalog so if there is something, details on how to examine it will be provided.

    I have seen a website with a very long article on the history of the Elwro 800. By long, I expect it to take about 20 pages if formatted for magazine publication. If the author has other articles with similar levels of details, much of Polish computer history would be covered. I can't tell; the website has very few internal links setup. I can't even get to the article from the front page.

    Comment


      #3
      Somewhere on the Internet I downloaded one .dsk image of "Elwro G1.dsk.gz" It is a CP/M Image from some Computer.
      The directory listing has the following files:
      Code:
      00002400 00 53 54 41 52 49 4F 4E 20 50 52 47 00 00 00 01 .STARION PRG....
      00002410 04 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
      00002420 00 53 54 41 52 49 4F 4E AF 43 4F 44 00 00 00 80 .STARION.COD....
      00002430 05 00 06 00 07 00 08 00 09 00 0A 00 0B 00 0C 00 ................
      00002440 00 53 54 41 52 49 4F 4E AF 43 4F 44 01 00 00 80 .STARION.COD....
      00002450 0D 00 0E 00 0F 00 10 00 11 00 12 00 13 00 14 00 ................
      00002460 00 53 54 41 52 49 4F 4E AF 43 4F 44 02 00 00 41 .STARION.COD...A
      00002470 15 00 16 00 17 00 18 00 19 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
      00002480 00 53 5A 41 43 48 59 20 20 50 52 47 00 00 00 02 .SZACHY PRG....
      00002490 1A 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
      000024A0 00 41 43 54 20 20 20 20 20 43 4F 44 00 00 00 38 .ACT COD...8
      000024B0 1B 00 1C 00 1D 00 1E 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
      000024C0 00 41 52 54 20 20 20 20 20 50 52 47 00 00 00 02 .ART PRG....
      000024D0 1F 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
      000024E0 00 43 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 43 4F 44 00 00 00 56 .C COD...V
      000024F0 20 00 21 00 22 00 23 00 24 00 25 00 00 00 00 00 .!.".#.$.%.....
      00002500 00 41 52 54 30 20 20 20 20 43 4F 44 00 00 00 37 .ART0 COD...7
      00002510 26 00 27 00 28 00 29 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 &.'.(.).........
      00002520 00 41 52 54 31 20 20 20 20 43 4F 44 00 00 00 80 .ART1 COD....
      00002530 2A 00 2B 00 2C 00 2D 00 2E 00 2F 00 30 00 31 00 *.+.,.-.../.0.1.
      00002540 00 41 52 54 31 20 20 20 20 43 4F 44 01 00 00 80 .ART1 COD....
      00002550 32 00 33 00 34 00 35 00 36 00 37 00 38 00 39 00 2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.
      00002560 00 41 52 54 31 20 20 20 20 43 4F 44 02 00 00 13 .ART1 COD....
      00002570 3A 00 E7 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 :...............
      00002580 00 41 52 54 32 20 20 20 20 43 4F 44 00 00 00 11 .ART2 COD....
      00002590 E8 00 E9 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
      000025A0 00 46 52 45 44 44 59 31 20 43 4F 44 00 00 00 80 .FREDDY1 COD....
      000025B0 3B 00 3C 00 3D 00 3E 00 3F 00 40 00 41 00 42 00 ;.<.=.>.?.@.A.B.
      000025C0 00 46 52 45 44 44 59 31 20 43 4F 44 01 00 00 80 .FREDDY1 COD....
      000025D0 43 00 44 00 45 00 46 00 47 00 48 00 49 00 4A 00 C.D.E.F.G.H.I.J.
      000025E0 00 46 52 45 44 44 59 31 20 43 4F 44 02 00 00 60 .FREDDY1 COD...`
      000025F0 4B 00 4C 00 4D 00 4E 00 4F 00 50 00 00 00 00 00 K.L.M.N.O.P.....
      00002600 00 46 52 45 44 44 59 31 20 50 52 47 00 00 00 07 .FREDDY1 PRG....
      00002610 51 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 Q...............
      00002620 00 46 52 45 44 44 59 32 20 43 4F 44 00 00 00 80 .FREDDY2 COD....
      00002630 52 00 53 00 54 00 55 00 56 00 57 00 58 00 59 00 R.S.T.U.V.W.X.Y.
      00002640 00 46 52 45 44 44 59 32 20 43 4F 44 01 00 00 80 .FREDDY2 COD....
      00002650 5A 00 5B 00 5C 00 5D 00 5E 00 5F 00 60 00 61 00 Z.[.\.].^._.`.a.
      00002660 00 46 52 45 44 44 59 32 20 43 4F 44 02 00 00 4D .FREDDY2 COD...M
      00002670 62 00 63 00 64 00 65 00 66 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 b.c.d.e.f.......
      00002680 00 46 52 45 44 44 59 32 20 50 52 47 00 00 00 07 .FREDDY2 PRG....
      00002690 67 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 g...............
      000026A0 00 48 41 54 45 20 20 20 20 50 52 47 00 00 00 02 .HATE PRG....
      000026B0 68 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 h...............
      000026C0 00 48 41 54 45 43 20 20 20 43 4F 44 00 00 00 80 .HATEC COD....
      000026D0 69 00 6A 00 6B 00 6C 00 6D 00 6E 00 6F 00 70 00 i.j.k.l.m.n.o.p.
      000026E0 00 48 41 54 45 43 20 20 20 43 4F 44 01 00 00 80 .HATEC COD....
      000026F0 71 00 72 00 73 00 74 00 75 00 76 00 77 00 78 00 q.r.s.t.u.v.w.x.
      00002700 00 48 41 54 45 43 20 20 20 43 4F 44 02 00 00 16 .HATEC COD....
      00002710 79 00 7A 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 y.z.............
      00002720 00 4C 49 43 45 4E 43 45 20 43 4F 44 00 00 00 80 .LICENCE COD....
      00002730 7B 00 7C 00 7D 00 7E 00 7F 00 80 00 81 00 82 00 {.|.}.~.........
      00002740 00 4C 49 43 45 4E 43 45 20 43 4F 44 01 00 00 80 .LICENCE COD....
      00002750 83 00 84 00 85 00 86 00 87 00 88 00 89 00 8A 00 ................
      00002760 00 4C 49 43 45 4E 43 45 20 43 4F 44 02 00 00 41 .LICENCE COD...A
      00002770 8B 00 8C 00 8D 00 8E 00 8F 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
      00002780 00 4C 49 43 45 4E 43 45 20 50 52 47 00 00 00 03 .LICENCE PRG....
      00002790 90 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
      000027A0 00 4D 49 53 50 41 43 4D 41 50 52 47 00 00 00 03 .MISPACMAPRG....
      000027B0 91 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
      000027C0 00 4D 49 53 53 20 20 20 20 43 4F 44 00 00 00 80 .MISS COD....
      000027D0 92 00 93 00 94 00 95 00 96 00 97 00 98 00 99 00 ................
      000027E0 00 4D 49 53 53 20 20 20 20 43 4F 44 01 00 00 80 .MISS COD....
      000027F0 9A 00 9B 00 9C 00 9D 00 9E 00 9F 00 A0 00 A1 00 ................
      00002800 00 4D 49 53 53 20 20 20 20 43 4F 44 02 00 00 3B .MISS COD...;
      00002810 A2 00 A3 00 A4 00 A5 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
      00002820 00 50 41 43 4D 41 31 20 20 43 4F 44 00 00 00 80 .PACMA1 COD....
      00002830 A6 00 A7 00 A8 00 A9 00 AA 00 AB 00 AC 00 AD 00 ................
      00002840 00 50 41 43 4D 41 31 20 20 43 4F 44 01 00 00 4F .PACMA1 COD...O
      00002850 AE 00 AF 00 B0 00 B1 00 B2 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
      00002860 00 50 41 43 4D 41 32 20 20 43 4F 44 00 00 00 25 .PACMA2 COD...%
      00002870 B3 00 B4 00 B5 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
      00002880 00 50 41 43 4D 41 33 20 20 43 4F 44 00 00 00 13 .PACMA3 COD....
      00002890 B6 00 B7 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
      000028A0 00 50 41 43 4D 41 4E 49 41 50 52 47 00 00 00 03 .PACMANIAPRG....
      000028B0 B8 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
      000028C0 00 50 49 4E 47 4D 43 31 20 43 4F 44 00 00 00 80 .PINGMC1 COD....
      000028D0 B9 00 BA 00 BB 00 BC 00 BD 00 BE 00 BF 00 C0 00 ................
      000028E0 00 50 49 4E 47 4D 43 31 20 43 4F 44 01 00 00 80 .PINGMC1 COD....
      000028F0 C1 00 C2 00 C3 00 C4 00 C5 00 C6 00 C7 00 C8 00 ................
      00002900 00 50 49 4E 47 4D 43 31 20 43 4F 44 02 00 00 3B .PINGMC1 COD...;
      00002910 C9 00 CA 00 CB 00 CC 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
      00002920 00 50 49 4E 47 4D 43 32 20 43 4F 44 00 00 00 39 .PINGMC2 COD...9
      00002930 CD 00 CE 00 CF 00 D0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
      00002940 00 50 49 4E 47 50 4F 4E 47 50 52 47 00 00 00 03 .PINGPONGPRG....
      00002950 D1 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
      00002960 00 51 43 31 20 20 20 20 20 43 4F 44 00 00 00 80 .QC1 COD....
      00002970 D2 00 D3 00 D4 00 D5 00 D6 00 D7 00 D8 00 D9 00 ................
      00002980 00 51 43 31 20 20 20 20 20 43 4F 44 01 00 00 80 .QC1 COD....
      00002990 DA 00 DB 00 DC 00 DD 00 DE 00 DF 00 E0 00 E1 00 ................
      000029A0 00 51 43 31 20 20 20 20 20 43 4F 44 02 00 00 44 .QC1 COD...D
      000029B0 E2 00 E3 00 E4 00 E5 00 E6 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
      000029C0 E5 53 2F 48 45 52 4F 20 20 50 52 47 00 00 00 02 .S/HERO PRG....
      000029D0 E7 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
      000029E0 E5 53 2F 48 45 52 4F 43 20 43 4F 44 00 00 00 80 .S/HEROC COD....
      000029F0 E8 00 E9 00 EA 00 EB 00 EC 00 ED 00 EE 00 EF 00 ................
      00002A00 E5 53 2F 48 45 52 4F 43 20 43 4F 44 01 00 00 80 .S/HEROC COD....
      00002A10 F0 00 F1 00 F2 00 F3 00 F4 00 F5 00 F6 00 F7 00 ................
      00002A20 E5 53 2F 48 45 52 4F 43 20 43 4F 44 02 00 00 3F .S/HEROC COD...?
      00002A30 F8 00 F9 00 FA 00 FB 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
      00002A40 00 53 43 52 41 4D 42 4C 44 50 52 47 00 00 00 01 .SCRAMBLDPRG....
      00002A50 FC 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
      00002A60 00 53 43 52 41 4D 42 4C 45 43 4F 44 00 00 00 3A .SCRAMBLECOD...:
      00002A70 FD 00 FE 00 FF 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
      00002A80 00 53 50 49 4E 20 20 20 20 50 52 47 00 00 00 03 .SPIN PRG....
      00002A90 01 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
      00002AA0 00 53 50 49 4E 30 20 20 20 43 4F 44 00 00 00 05 .SPIN0 COD....
      00002AB0 02 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
      00002AC0 00 53 50 49 4E 31 20 20 20 43 4F 44 00 00 00 39 .SPIN1 COD...9
      00002AD0 03 01 04 01 05 01 06 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
      00002AE0 00 53 50 49 4E 32 20 20 20 43 4F 44 00 00 00 80 .SPIN2 COD....
      00002AF0 07 01 08 01 09 01 0A 01 0B 01 0C 01 0D 01 0E 01 ................
      00002B00 00 53 50 49 4E 32 20 20 20 43 4F 44 01 00 00 80 .SPIN2 COD....
      00002B10 0F 01 10 01 11 01 12 01 13 01 14 01 15 01 16 01 ................
      00002B20 00 53 50 49 4E 32 20 20 20 43 4F 44 02 00 00 3B .SPIN2 COD...;
      00002B30 17 01 18 01 19 01 1A 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
      00002B40 00 53 54 41 52 51 55 41 4B 50 52 47 00 00 00 01 .STARQUAKPRG....
      00002B50 1B 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
      00002B60 E5 54 45 54 52 41 46 20 20 50 52 47 00 00 00 07 .TETRAF PRG....
      00002B70 1C 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
      00002B80 00 54 45 54 52 49 53 20 20 50 52 47 00 00 00 06 .TETRIS PRG....
      00002B90 1D 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
      00002BA0 00 54 45 54 52 49 53 2B 20 43 4F 44 00 00 00 80 .TETRIS+ COD....
      00002BB0 1E 01 1F 01 20 01 21 01 22 01 23 01 24 01 25 01 .... .!.".#.$.%.
      00002BC0 00 54 45 54 52 49 53 2B 20 43 4F 44 01 00 00 80 .TETRIS+ COD....
      00002C10 34 01 35 01 36 01 37 01 38 01 39 01 3A 01 3B 01 4.5.6.7.8.9.:.;.
      00002C20 00 54 45 54 52 49 53 43 20 43 4F 44 01 00 00 67 .TETRISC COD...g
      00002C30 3C 01 3D 01 3E 01 3F 01 40 01 41 01 42 01 00 00 <.=.>.?.@.A.B...
      00002C40 00 5A 4F 4C 59 58 20 20 20 43 4F 44 00 00 00 80 .ZOLYX COD....
      00002C50 43 01 44 01 45 01 46 01 47 01 48 01 49 01 4A 01 C.D.E.F.G.H.I.J.
      00002C60 00 5A 4F 4C 59 58 20 20 20 43 4F 44 01 00 00 80 .ZOLYX COD....
      00002C70 4B 01 4C 01 4D 01 4E 01 4F 01 50 01 51 01 52 01 K.L.M.N.O.P.Q.R.
      00002C80 00 5A 4F 4C 59 58 20 20 20 43 4F 44 02 00 00 68 .ZOLYX COD...h
      00002C90 53 01 54 01 55 01 56 01 57 01 58 01 59 01 00 00 S.T.U.V.W.X.Y...
      00002CA0 00 5A 4F 4C 59 58 20 20 20 50 52 47 00 00 00 07 .ZOLYX PRG....
      00002CB0 5A 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 Z...............


      Larry

      Comment


        #4
        Thanks for replies.

        About the disk image - I known these disks, they work great with Elwro 800-3 Junior, and most 800-2 . There are for CP/J - Elwro 800 Junior CP/M version(it also supports some local net called Junet). Your example is even better - this is a floppy disk that You can list in CP/J, but on disk are games that work in ZX Spectrum similar mode of Elwro 800 Junior. This is maybe for another topic - but yes with help of people, the Elwro 720 KB floppy disk image format is well known, and even there is separate program, that You can visually edit and add programs, and other files to that floppies. You can also make own floppies, and even use Win 10/Linux to write/read 3,5 inch floppies via usb floppy drive. There are also some interfaces that allow connecting usual PC drives to Elwro 800 Junior with floppy drive controller.

        The problem (which I have now) with Elwro 800 Junior floppies is with old 150 KB(probably) format, that was used on some early 800-2 and Elwro 800 Junior. I made images with Catweasel, and they look quite well(not same zeroes at least), but don't known how to move out files, insert etc.(not working with CP/M tools with my settings), and sadly probably most people in Poland don't know it. Maybe I will ask on this forum and somebody with big knowledge about CP/M will known it.
        Last edited by pgru2; October 17, 2021, 12:33 AM.

        Comment


          #5
          $ cpmls -f sin1 -D ElwroG1.raw
          Name Bytes Recs Attr update create
          ------------ ------ ------ ---- ----------------- -----------------
          ACT .COD 8K 56
          ART .PRG 2K 2
          ART0 .COD 8K 55
          ART1 .COD 36K 275
          ART2 .COD 4K 17
          C .COD 12K 86
          FREDDY1 .COD 44K 352
          FREDDY1 .PRG 2K 7
          FREDDY2 .COD 42K 333
          FREDDY2 .PRG 2K 7
          HATE .PRG 2K 2
          HATEC .COD 36K 278
          LICENCE .COD 42K 321
          LICENCE .PRG 2K 3
          MISPACMA.PRG 2K 3
          MISS .COD 40K 315
          PACMA1 .COD 26K 207
          PACMA2 .COD 6K 37
          PACMA3 .COD 4K 19
          PACMANIA.PRG 2K 3
          PINGMC1 .COD 40K 315
          PINGMC2 .COD 8K 57
          PINGPONG.PRG 2K 3
          QC1 .COD 42K 324
          SCRAMBLD.PRG 2K 1
          SCRAMBLE.COD 8K 58
          SPIN .PRG 2K 3
          SPIN0 .COD 2K 5
          SPIN1 .COD 8K 57
          SPIN2 .COD 40K 315
          STARION .PRG 2K 1
          STARION/.COD 42K 321
          STARQUAK.PRG 2K 1
          SZACHY .PRG 2K 2
          TETRIS+ .COD 44K 352
          TETRIS .PRG 2K 6
          TETRISC .COD 30K 231
          ZOLYX .COD 46K 360
          ZOLYX .PRG 2K 7
          39 Files occupying 648K, 58K Free.

          Larry

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by ldkraemer View Post
            $ cpmls -f sin1 -D ElwroG1.raw
            Name Bytes Recs Attr update create
            ------------ ------ ------ ---- ----------------- -----------------
            ACT .COD 8K 56
            ART .PRG 2K 2
            ART0 .COD 8K 55
            ART1 .COD 36K 275
            ART2 .COD 4K 17
            C .COD 12K 86
            FREDDY1 .COD 44K 352
            FREDDY1 .PRG 2K 7
            FREDDY2 .COD 42K 333
            FREDDY2 .PRG 2K 7
            HATE .PRG 2K 2
            HATEC .COD 36K 278
            LICENCE .COD 42K 321
            LICENCE .PRG 2K 3
            MISPACMA.PRG 2K 3
            MISS .COD 40K 315
            PACMA1 .COD 26K 207
            PACMA2 .COD 6K 37
            PACMA3 .COD 4K 19
            PACMANIA.PRG 2K 3
            PINGMC1 .COD 40K 315
            PINGMC2 .COD 8K 57
            PINGPONG.PRG 2K 3
            QC1 .COD 42K 324
            SCRAMBLD.PRG 2K 1
            SCRAMBLE.COD 8K 58
            SPIN .PRG 2K 3
            SPIN0 .COD 2K 5
            SPIN1 .COD 8K 57
            SPIN2 .COD 40K 315
            STARION .PRG 2K 1
            STARION/.COD 42K 321
            STARQUAK.PRG 2K 1
            SZACHY .PRG 2K 2
            TETRIS+ .COD 44K 352
            TETRIS .PRG 2K 6
            TETRISC .COD 30K 231
            ZOLYX .COD 46K 360
            ZOLYX .PRG 2K 7
            39 Files occupying 648K, 58K Free.

            Larry
            The PRG is program for ZX Spectrum mode of Elwro 800 Junior. And this is a 720 KB image, the problem is with older floppies that have 150 KB. When I was making my game for Elwro 800 Junior Spectrum mode I made a tap compilation, next excluded the binary program(if I remember), added special header for Elwro 800 Jr and inserted in onto a floppy image. And yes I have it working on 3,5 inch floppy disk.

            Comment

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