Things to consider when looking for an IBM 5150

[tinkerBOY]

I've always wanted an IBM 5150 and I'm trying to get as much information as I can. So what do you usually look for in an old IBM 5150?

Can anyone please let me know the estimated weight of all the parts like the CPU, monitor, and keyboard?

 

[willmurray461]

Are you looking for an earlier, older 5150, or a later, more capable 5150? If you're looking for an earlier model see this website. Also it's not mentioned in the website, but older 5150's usually don't have IBM logo's in the top left corner of the floppy drives. If you're looking for an average 5150, just make sure it has the keyboard and monitor and original disk drives. All of the 5150 keyboards were the same. If you want a picture of what something looks like, search up "IBM Model F XT." The monitors come in 3 different types: the 5153 Personal Computer Color Display , the 5151 Personal Computer Display, and the 5154 Enhanced Color Display. The 5153 is the most common and between the 5151 and 5154 in price. It has the lowest resolution of the three, but has 4 color CGA support, as opposed the the 5151 which is monochrome. The 5151 is the second most common and is the cheapest of the three. It is the sharpest of the lot, but only supports monochrome (2 color B/W) or Hercules (4 color grayscale) graphics. The 5154 is the rarest and most expensive of the three. It has a decent resolution and supports 16 color EGA graphics modes. The 5150's usually came with two full height Tandon TM-100-2a 5.25" 360k floppy disk drives. If you're looking for a more capable machine, look for RAM expansion cards, multifunction cards like the SixPakPlus, and CPU upgrades like an NEC V20. I don't have my 5150 anymore to weight, but I think it was something like 25lbs for the system unit, 15lbs for the monitor, and 5lbs for the keyboard.

 

[tinkerBOY]

Are you looking for an earlier, older 5150, or a later, more capable 5150? If you're looking for an earlier model see this website. Also it's not mentioned in the website, but older 5150's usually don't have IBM logo's in the top left corner of the floppy drives. If you're looking for an average 5150, just make sure it has the keyboard and monitor and original disk drives. All of the 5150 keyboards were the same. If you want a picture of what something looks like, search up "IBM Model F XT." The monitors come in 3 different types: the 5153 Personal Computer Color Display , the 5151 Personal Computer Display, and the 5154 Enhanced Color Display. The 5153 is the most common and between the 5151 and 5154 in price. It has the lowest resolution of the three, but has 4 color CGA support, as opposed the the 5151 which is monochrome. The 5151 is the second most common and is the cheapest of the three. It is the sharpest of the lot, but only supports monochrome (2 color B/W) or Hercules (4 color grayscale) graphics. The 5154 is the rarest and most expensive of the three. It has a decent resolution and supports 16 color EGA graphics modes. The 5150's usually came with two full height Tandon TM-100-2a 5.25" 360k floppy disk drives.

Thanks! Not really picky on the whether older or earlier model. I love the monochrome so i want the 5151. I can't find though any info on weight?

 

[PeterNC]

There are also numerous 5150 imitations out there that are sometimes cheaper and fly under the radar on eBay. The downside is that replacement MOBOs and documentation are obviously harder to come by.

5150s pop up regularly on Craiglist so you may want to go that route. That can work out more economically. Especially when you are open to drive some distance.

 

[modernclassic]

I was in the same situation a few months ago and have been spending quite a bit of time since then with the 5150 I got, and have learned a ton about it in that time. I think I got a bit lucky with the one I ended up with, because I didn't know much about the differences between different ones at the time. But I ended up with a late model that has all the factory upgrades, and then the owner himself had upgraded it as far as it could go beyond that.

I think as far as specific things to look for, look for a 64KB-256KB motherboard (this is printed right on the board), look for the last BIOS chip (photos here), and look for add-in cards/upgrades like the aforementioned Six Pack Plus. Don't worry *too* much if you find one without any extra add-in cards because you can always buy them later for not that much money. But I'd make sure that you at least get the floppy controller and some sort of graphics card; you need those, so it's kind of a pain to buy the computer and then have to immediately go out and buy the necessary cards to really make it work. (Some people selling bare computers just take everything out of them to sell separately, sometimes not realizing that they've basically broken the functionality of the machine by doing so.)

Also, I personally am happy to have a CGA machine, which has the side benefit of supporting artifact color through its composite port (only really usable for games and demos, but still fun). But other people like the monochrome machines for various reasons.

I think that in a way it might be fun to see what you could do with a very early 16KB model, but as far as being able to support the most software and hardware, I'd look for a later one.

 

[Lutiana]

I've always wanted an IBM 5150 and I'm trying to get as much information as I can. So what do you usually look for in an old IBM 5150?

Can anyone please let me know the estimated weight of all the parts like the CPU, monitor, and keyboard?

Where are you located?

 

[willmurray461]

I don't have my 5150 anymore to weight, but I think it was something like 35lbs for the system unit, 15lbs for the monitor, and 5lbs for the keyboard.

I just edited my first post. I also really loved my 5151 monochrome monitor. It was SO much sharper than the 5153 CGA monitor and looked way better in my opinion. However, you might want to also consider a 5160 PC XT. It looks exactly the same, can use the 5151 and all of the 5150's peripherals, but also has 3 more expansion slots and hard drive support. If you just want an average 5150 and you might want to try buying the parts separately, which is usually cheaper. First look for a nice cheap system unit with both of the 5.25" floppy drives, model Tandon TM-100-2a. If someone says the unit doesn't turn on and it doesn't look extremely dirty/rusted, you might want buy it. If you have soldering skills, you can replace any old shorted capacitors (the cause of 99% of broken IBM's) for 99¢ a piece. Also, if the drives don't work they probably only need some lubrication. However, make sure the keyboard and monitor are in good condition. If someone says the monitor doesn't work, I wouldn't buy it. If someone says the keyboard doesn't work or is missing any keys, I wouldn't buy it unless you know someone with replacement keycaps. If you want, you can look for memory cards to upgrade your RAM. I'd say 384K is usually enough for most programs, but 640k, the maximum, isn't that hard to get. Just make sure that the PC has monochrome (not color) display adapter.

 

[tinkerBOY]

Where are you located?

I'm from the Philippines. For larger bigger stuff I purchase from the US I usually just use a shipping forwarder as that is more cheaper than letting the seller ship it directly to me.

 

[tinkerBOY]

I was in the same situation a few months ago and have been spending quite a bit of time since then with the 5150 I got, and have learned a ton about it in that time. I think I got a bit lucky with the one I ended up with, because I didn't know much about the differences between different ones at the time. But I ended up with a late model that has all the factory upgrades, and then the owner himself had upgraded it as far as it could go beyond that.

I think as far as specific things to look for, look for a 64KB-256KB motherboard (this is printed right on the board), look for the last BIOS chip (photos here), and look for add-in cards/upgrades like the aforementioned Six Pack Plus. Don't worry *too* much if you find one without any extra add-in cards because you can always buy them later for not that much money. But I'd make sure that you at least get the floppy controller and some sort of graphics card; you need those, so it's kind of a pain to buy the computer and then have to immediately go out and buy the necessary cards to really make it work. (Some people selling bare computers just take everything out of them to sell separately, sometimes not realizing that they've basically broken the functionality of the machine by doing so.)

Also, I personally am happy to have a CGA machine, which has the side benefit of supporting artifact color through its composite port (only really usable for games and demos, but still fun). But other people like the monochrome machines for various reasons.

I think that in a way it might be fun to see what you could do with a very early 16KB model, but as far as being able to support the most software and hardware, I'd look for a later one.

Great tips, thank you! I'll probably be looking for later models. Does the 5150 have hard drive or just floppy drives for loading the OS?

 

[tinkerBOY]

I just edited my first post. I also really loved my 5151 monochrome monitor. It was SO much sharper than the 5153 CGA monitor and looked way better in my opinion. However, you might want to also consider a 5160 PC XT. It looks exactly the same, can use the 5151 and all of the 5150's peripherals, but also has 3 more expansion slots and hard drive support. If you just want an average 5150 and you might want to try buying the parts separately, which is usually cheaper. First look for a nice cheap system unit with both of the 5.25" floppy drives, model Tandon TM-100-2a. If someone says the unit doesn't turn on and it doesn't look extremely dirty/rusted, you might want buy it. If you have soldering skills, you can replace any old shorted capacitors (the cause of 99% of broken IBM's) for 99¢ a piece. Also, if the drives don't work they probably only need some lubrication. However, make sure the keyboard and monitor are in good condition. If someone says the monitor doesn't work, I wouldn't buy it. If someone says the keyboard doesn't work or is missing any keys, I wouldn't buy it unless you know someone with replacement keycaps. If you want, you can look for memory cards to upgrade your RAM. I'd say 384K is usually enough for most programs, but 640k, the maximum, isn't that hard to get. Just make sure that the PC has monochrome (not color) display adapter.

Thank you for the tips! I already have the keyboard for the 5150 and actually made an XT / AT To USB Converter for it so I can also use it in my newer computer.

 

[tinkerBOY]

There are also numerous 5150 imitations out there that are sometimes cheaper and fly under the radar on eBay. The downside is that replacement MOBOs and documentation are obviously harder to come by.

5150s pop up regularly on Craiglist so you may want to go that route. That can work out more economically. Especially when you are open to drive some distance.

I'm from the Philippines and my only option is eBay.

 

[modem7]

Can anyone please let me know the estimated weight of all the parts like the CPU, monitor, and keyboard?

IBM 5150 system unit: An IBM manual indicates "With Diskette Drive Unit-25 lbs (11.4 kg)". I measured about 13 kg for a dual floppy unit with multiple cards.

IBM 83-key keyboard: An IBM manual indicates "6.5 lbs (14.3 kg)", which grossly conflicts with my measurement of approx. 3 kg.

IBM 5151: IBM manual indicates "7.9 kg (17.3 lb)", which is close to what I measure.
IBM 5153: IBM manual indicates "11.8 kg (26 lb)", which is close to what I measure.
IBM 5154: IBM manual indicates "32 lbs", which is close to what I measure.

 

[Stone]

IBM 83-key keyboard: An IBM manual indicates "6.5 lbs (14.3 kg)", which grossly conflicts with my measurement of approx. 3 kg.

If the manual states that 6.5 lbs. is the equivalent of 14.3 kg. it is quite obviously an error as 6.5 lbs. is the equivalent of 3 kg. and your measurement of 3 kg. only conflicts with the 14.3 kg., not the 6.5 lbs.

 

[Cimonvg]

.... However, you might want to also consider a 5160 PC XT. It looks exactly the same, can use the 5151 and all of the 5150's peripherals, but also has 3 more expansion slots and hard drive support. ....

I have the notion IBM5150 supports HD - but only when you swap BIOS from the first edition's to the newer 10/27/82 BIOS.

/cimonvg

 

[Chuck(G)]

That's only if you're interested in booting from HD. My 5150 HD used a device driver (under DOS 2.0) for its hard disk access. It worked just fine.

 

[modernclassic]

Great tips, thank you! I'll probably be looking for later models. Does the 5150 have hard drive or just floppy drives for loading the OS?

Later 5150's with the last BIOS chip have full hard drive support. (Technically, BIOS extension support for the controller.) So any post-1982 5150 should have it as far as I know. Every 5150 has its production date on a tag inside the case, so you can either look for this or ask the seller. But you can also look at the chip itself and make sure it's part #1501476.

You have to be careful depending on what you're planning to do with this hard drive support, though, because the 5150 only has a 63.5 watt power supply. Most hard drives of the era won't work, and most of the ones that would (like the 10 and 20MB Hard Cards) are really unreliable and probably won't work anymore for their own reasons. There are maybe a couple other models of hard drive you could look for but I don't remember what they are; probably hard to find those specific drives now anyway. But I'm not sure it's really worth specifically buying any 30 year old hard drive at this point. You can get an XT-IDE card and use something more modern or a CF card, which won't overtax the power supply. You still need that last BIOS chip for that too.

I don't know if the 5150 ever shipped with a hard drive as a factory option, although you might see some that people added them to. But the 5160 (XT) was what you bought if you wanted a built-in hard drive in those days. It's a very similar machine but just has a beefier power supply, 3 extra slots and maybe some other under the hood bus revisions (not sure about that). Most of them shipped with built-in hard drives, although it was available without one. The XT is more versatile for all those reasons, so if you don't care about having the very first PC, I agree with whoever said you might want to consider an XT instead. I personally did want the first PC, so I can understand that too.

 

[cwathen]

Unless you have a parts bin of 5150-era hardware lying around, I would strongly recommend going for a complete working system with the system, keyboard and monitor all sold together. Firstly, you can see it working (and treat listings where the seller claims they have 'no way of testing it' despite having all the necessary bits to run it with the contempt they deserve).

And secondly, despite the higher initial outlay this is almost always the most cost effective way of acquiring a 5150 as systems are worth more as their individual parts than as a whole and you will quickly find your acquisition becomes a cash cow as you go after various bits you need to get it running to the level you want.

I didn't follow this advice myself, and this is my own personal journey:

April 2017 - got a 5154 EGA monitor as the first part of the system (wasn't planned to be like this, the seller had an XT, a model F keyboard and the monitor all selling separately. I planned to get all 3, only ended up with the monitor). This cost me £88 + £30 in fuel to go and collect it. The monitor also has failed mains filter caps and will require more work to make it run reliably.

June 2017 - got a 5150 base unit for £90 delivered. This was rare in itself as it was a single floppy version, still with the original blanking plate where the second floppy was supposed to go. 'Rare' doesn't necessarily mean 'good', as a single floppy drive machine is very limited in what it can do. It also only had the standard 256KB of on board RAM and no expansion cards fitted which again won't do much. On top of that it also only had an MDA card fitted so I couldn't connect it to the monitor I had.

July 2017 - Bought an EGA card for £35 which turned out not to work.

November 2017 - Bought a CGA card for £40 which did work. But now I'm stuck with CGA graphics on an EGA monitor and still have no keyboard.

December 2017 - Finally got a model F keyboard. It cost £90 delivered. It is also a bit ropey and has needed the cable replacing which is still a work in progress. This was the first time I actually managed to use the machine, only to find it could do very little with the configuration I had.

January 2018 - got an obscure Microforce multi function card for £25 which added another 256KB of RAM to bring it up to 512KB (enough to run most software, but still short of the 640KB that would be more ideal). It caused me to join this forum (a plus point!) but also involved a lot of work to get it running.

In total it took 9 months and almost £400 for a machine to be stuck with CGA graphics on an EGA monitor with bad caps, a ropey keyboard, 512KB RAM and a single floppy drive. None of which was in mint condition. The same money would have got me a much more pimped out 5150 if bought as a complete system.

Since then I picked up a 5151 monitor to try out the original MDA card (which I did get for a steal as the seller didn't realise that they don't work unless connected to the computer) and ever since I've been tinkering with various mass storage options to compensate for the fact that it only has a single floppy drive (currently using a parallel port ZIP drive with it). Only once did I see a working second Tandon floppy drive I could fit into the second bay; it cost more than the base unit did on it's own.

 

[roberttx]

When I'm looking for a 5150 I go downstairs, turn left and pick one from the top of the stack. Just sayin'...

 

[tinkerBOY]

When I'm looking for a 5150 I go downstairs, turn left and pick one from the top of the stack. Just sayin'...

Maybe you sell me one? ��

 

[tinkerBOY]

Unless you have a parts bin of 5150-era hardware lying around, I would strongly recommend going for a complete working system with the system, keyboard and monitor all sold together. Firstly, you can see it working (and treat listings where the seller claims they have 'no way of testing it' despite having all the necessary bits to run it with the contempt they deserve).

And secondly, despite the higher initial outlay this is almost always the most cost effective way of acquiring a 5150 as systems are worth more as their individual parts than as a whole and you will quickly find your acquisition becomes a cash cow as you go after various bits you need to get it running to the level you want.

I didn't follow this advice myself, and this is my own personal journey:

April 2017 - got a 5154 EGA monitor as the first part of the system (wasn't planned to be like this, the seller had an XT, a model F keyboard and the monitor all selling separately. I planned to get all 3, only ended up with the monitor). This cost me £88 + £30 in fuel to go and collect it. The monitor also has failed mains filter caps and will require more work to make it run reliably.

June 2017 - got a 5150 base unit for £90 delivered. This was rare in itself as it was a single floppy version, still with the original blanking plate where the second floppy was supposed to go. 'Rare' doesn't necessarily mean 'good', as a single floppy drive machine is very limited in what it can do. It also only had the 256KB of on board RAM which again won't do much. On top of that it also only had an MDA card fitted so I couldn't connect it to the monitor I had.

July 2017 - Bought an EGA card for £35 which turned out not to work.

November 2017 - Bought a CGA card for £40 which did work. But now I'm stuck with CGA graphics on an EGA monitor and still have no keyboard.

December 2017 - Finally got a model F keyboard. It cost £90 delivered (the most expensive part so far). It is also a bit ropey and has needed the cable replacing which is still a work in progress. This was the first time I actually managed to use the machine, only to find it could do very little with the configuration I had.

January 2018 - got an obscure Microforce multi function card for £25 which added another 256KB of RAM to bring it up to 512KB (enough to run most software, but still short of the 640KB that would be more ideal). It caused me to join this forum (a plus point!) but also involved a lot of work to get it running.

In total it took 9 months and almost £400 for a machine to be stuck with CGA graphics on an EGA monitor with bad caps, a ropey keyboard, 512KB RAM and a single floppy drive. None of which was in mint condition. The same money would have got me a much more pimped out 5150 if bought as a complete system.

Since then I picked up a 5151 monitor to try out the original MDA card (which I did get for a steal as the seller didn't realise that they don't work unless connected to the computer) and ever since I've been tinkering with various mass storage options to compensate for the fact that it only has a single floppy drive (currently using a parallel port ZIP drive with it). Only once did I see a working second Tandon floppy drive I could fit into the second bay; it cost more than the base unit did on it's own.

Thanks for sharing your story really appreciate it.