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Spectravideo Xmas present

tezza

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Joined
Oct 1, 2007
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New Zealand
My latest acquisition has arrived the day before Xmas. A Spectravideo SV-318 (see photos) complete with some software and manuals. This was one on my wanted list, so I'm happy to add it to the collection.

What interests me in this computer is the MSX connection and also the design. Even though it was a 1983 offering, the design is '60s kitch. It looks like it belongs on a Thunderbird set, with Brains pushing that red joystick around. (-:

I've fired it up, and it goes just fine.
 

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Very nice find indeed!

You just gotta love that little computer. I'm especially fond of computers with built in joysticks, like the SVI 318, Enterprise 64/128 and COMX-35.

And the SVI 318 is, as you wrote, almost an MSX-machine. Now you just need the expansion box, diskdrive and a memory expansion ;)

// Z
 
I’ve just spent a few hours today getting to know my Spectravideo SV-318. A few random thoughts…

  • The BASIC is very good indeed, Lots of commands to manipulate the graphics and sounds, as well as commands for formatting text and string handling.
  • Graphics and sound were quite impressive. It even has sprites!
  • Keyboard is less that impressive but it was an entry level machine in its day after all. The keys are rubber but they are well spaced and at least the SPACE BAR key is long.
  • At 1800 baud, the tape programs load very fast.
  • The video is nice and clear, even going through an RF modulator

Had I been looking for a home computer for both games and serious stuff at the time this came out, I could well have been tempted by Spectravideo. Not this one, but its big brother the SV-328 with the full stroke keyboard, disk-based with CP/M.

I probably would have picked it over the C-64. At the time, I could never warm to Commodore due to the inferior BASIC. Having started with a TRS-80 and programmed in the respectable 12k Level 2 BASIC, the 8K version on the Vic-20 and C64 just seemed totally inadequate for the hardware. This Spectravideo has a version of BASIC which allows the home programmer to easily utilise the hardware features on offer.
 
It's an interesting system and I wrote a bit about its bigger brother in my collection, the SV-328 (which is actually what the original MSX 1 spec was based off of, though it's not compatible of course), back in July: http://armchairarcade.com/neo/node/1470

I would have personally never chosen it over a C-64 based on the simple matter of its having a paltry commercial software collection, but it certainly has some interesting elements to it.
 
And all those joysticks are fragile, unresponsive toys that you wouldn't want to play more than one round of Pac-Man with before you fear it will break? :p
Something like that... Luckily there are external joysticks to use with games for most of the computers.

It's an interesting system and I wrote a bit about its bigger brother in my collection, the SV-328 (which is actually what the original MSX 1 spec was based off of, though it's not compatible of course), back in July: http://armchairarcade.com/neo/node/1470
Nice photo and nice collection of stuff there!

I wouldn't have chosen it over the C64. The C64 was THE machine in my small town. Everybody had one. So there was more software floating around for the C64 than any other computer.

But the SVI 3x8 is a good machine. The 328 is real fun, and as tezza writes one can run CP/M on them. Yes, even on the 318 but you'd want a memory expansion and some other expansion cards before trying that.

// Z
 
But the SVI 3x8 is a good machine. The 328 is real fun, and as tezza writes one can run CP/M on them. Yes, even on the 318 but you'd want a memory expansion and some other expansion cards before trying that.

// Z

The expansion systems are extremely rare. Recently (just ended) there were two expansion systems from the same Australian seller on eBay, one by itself and unpopulated and the other fairly complete with an SVI-728 system, which was Spectravideo's first MSX 1 system and of course never released in North America. I didn't win either (I really wanted the SVI-728 more for the loaded expansion system for use with the 328 more than as an MSX 1 system, as I already have a Yamaha MSX 1 and a Sony MSX 2 system).
 
And all those joysticks are fragile, unresponsive toys that you wouldn't want to play more than one round of Pac-Man with before you fear it will break? :p

Indeed. But they look cool!! Especially when they are bright red against white! :D (Good thing this unit comes with 2 external joysticks though)

I would have personally never chosen it over a C-64 based on the simple matter of its having a paltry commercial software collection, but it certainly has some interesting elements to it.

Oh I agree, its software support was pathetic, which was a real shame. What I meant was at the time (1983) I was interested in programming and the more serious side of computing (along with the odd game). In 1983 I could see the momentum the C-64 was building but the mushy feel of it's keyboard, the poor BASIC and the slooow disk drive, would have caused me to gravitate towards the expanded SV-328 if the two were dumped in front of me. Of course I'm ignoring price and availability here, which also a factor in any purchase (and one of the reasons why the c-64 was so successful). I'm talking about just a technical evaluation and "emotional pull" if you know what I mean.

Thinking back to that time I know I was somewhat underwhelmed by the c-64 which (apart from the above) may have also been a reflection of it's marketing as a games machine for kids. I mean...you could buy it in supermarkets and toy stores for God's sake! How could this be a serious computer! :D

Yes, there was a lot of micro-computer snobbery in the early days and (being young and arrogant) I was as guilty as most. Having an Asian TRS-80 clone at the time I had no right to be, but it did everything I wanted for my computing needs at the time.

While I was dismissive of the C64, I just used the hate the way those stuck-up Apple II people looked down their nose at ME, with my trash-80 clone!

Of course the C64 was well beneath their dignity. hehehe

Ah, the good old days when computing was fun!:)
 
Yes, there was a lot of micro-computer snobbery in the early days and (being young and arrogant) I was as guilty as most. Having an Asian TRS-80 clone at the time I had no right to be, but it did everything I wanted for my computing needs at the time.

While I was dismissive of the C64, I just used the hate the way those stuck-up Apple II people looked down their nose at ME, with my trash-80 clone!

Of course the C64 was well beneath their dignity. hehehe

Ah, the good old days when computing was fun!:)

Indeed, it's what's called a "fanboy" today. Back then like most everyone else I too was passionate about the systems (videogame, computer, etc.) I had, simply because they were the systems *I* had. Part of it was jealousy, part of it was ignorance, part of it was simply knowing more about what you had (and yes, partly the fun of being against what your friends had, whether it was an Apple II or Atari 800XL). As I matured a bit and got more and more into collecting as the 80's wore on, I had more and more first-hand experience with different types of stuff, leading to my massively diverse collection today to where I've been for all intents and purposes "cured" of any brand bias. I just love the technology for technology's sake, period, no matter how humble or underutilized. That's the best position to be in - a position of power - a position that simply isn't possible as a child with obviously limited resources.

Today, this "feeling" is more evident in consoles than in computers, since the hardware is still the star in the former, while the operating system is more the star of the latter, .i.e., Windows, Mac and Linux all run on the same "generic" components, losing a lot of the personality from the more diverse past.
 
Indeed, it's what's called a "fanboy" today. Back then like most everyone else I too was passionate about the systems (videogame, computer, etc.) I had, simply because they were the systems *I* had. Part of it was jealousy, part of it was ignorance, part of it was simply knowing more about what you had (and yes, partly the fun of being against what your friends had, whether it was an Apple II or Atari 800XL).

Yes, I never saw it first hand because I wasn't there but apparently it was almost war at time between Commodore and Atari fans in the U.S.. Both companies were focused on the same market I guess, so it was a case of us and them!! hehehe.

All a bit silly when you look back on it, but tribalism is never far from the surface in humans, especially young ones.:)
 
Yes, I never saw it first hand because I wasn't there but apparently it was almost war at time between Commodore and Atari fans in the U.S.. Both companies were focused on the same market I guess, so it was a case of us and them!! hehehe.

All a bit silly when you look back on it, but tribalism is never far from the surface in humans, especially young ones.:)

To a degree yes, but there was just as much of a "fight" between Apple II and C-64 users here in the US. Really, by late 1983, it was apparent it had become a three way battle between Apple II, C-64 and Atari 8-bit users, with the latter being a more distant third in terms of mindset/owners. For a short time this shifted to Atari ST versus Amiga versus IBM EGA, with the latter two coming to dominate within a few years before IBM VGA settled any discussions once and for all. After that, it became pretty much the battle of the OS, with Windows soon to decimate/dominate. It some ways of course this standardization is a benefit to us, but there are obviously some downsides.
 
To a degree yes, but there was just as much of a "fight" between Apple II and C-64 users here in the US. Really, by late 1983, it was apparent it had become a three way battle between Apple II, C-64 and Atari 8-bit users, with the latter being a more distant third in terms of mindset/owners. For a short time this shifted to Atari ST versus Amiga versus IBM EGA, with the latter two coming to dominate within a few years before IBM VGA settled any discussions once and for all. After that, it became pretty much the battle of the OS, with Windows soon to decimate/dominate.

Yes, it was that latter Amiga/Atari ST period I was thinking about really.

It is interesting how microcomputing developed a little differently in different countries. Here in New Zealand for example, if we look at 1983, it was all Commodore. The Apple II was around but it was SO EXPENSIVE it just was not in the same market. I mean, you would be looking at 2x-3x the difference in price! This is partly because you couldn't plug an Apple II into a TV set but nevertheless there seem to be a huge markup! Perhaps this was due to shipping costs or maybe it was just priced so it deliberately DIDN'T look like a home machine (I suspect the latter). Due to it's expense, the Apple II was really just for the serious hobbiest down here or businesses.

The "home" market was dominated almost completely by the C64 and Vic 20. Atari's were uncommon and the Apple was just in another price league. Spectrums were also a distant also-ran.
 
The expansion systems are extremely rare. Recently (just ended) there were two expansion systems from the same Australian seller on eBay, one by itself and unpopulated and the other fairly complete with an SVI-728 system, which was Spectravideo's first MSX 1 system and of course never released in North America. I didn't win either (I really wanted the SVI-728 more for the loaded expansion system for use with the 328 more than as an MSX 1 system, as I already have a Yamaha MSX 1 and a Sony MSX 2 system).
So the expansion systems are rare? I have a SVI-318 with a SVI-601 Super Expander populated with the following cartridges:
SV-801 Floppy Controller cartridge.
SV-802 Centronic interface.
SV-806 80-Column Display Cartridge.
SV-807 64K Ram Cartridge.

Maybe I should hang on to this? I was thinking about parting with this setup as it isn't boxed.

Do the expansion systems work with both the 3xx and 7xx series of Spectravideo Computers?

// Z
 
Maybe I should hang on to this? I was thinking about parting with this setup as it isn't boxed.

Do the expansion systems work with both the 3xx and 7xx series of Spectravideo Computers?

// Z

I've been watching e-bay for about 2-3 months since I started actively collecting machines. I saw the entry Bill talks about and from memory there was a full SV-328 system on there a while back also.

So they don't seem to be that common. Not as rare as hen's teeth though either.

Recently (just ended) there were two expansion systems from the same Australian seller on eBay, one by itself and unpopulated and the other fairly complete with an SVI-728 system, which was Spectravideo's first MSX 1 system and of course never released in North America.

I was tempted to bid for this myself. Does anyone know what it actually went for in the end? (Bill?)
 
I was tempted to bid for this myself. Does anyone know what it actually went for in the end? (Bill?)
I just looked at completed listings on ebay australia. It seems that the unpopulated one went for AU$ 35.90 and the 728 with the expansion system went for AU$ 213.

// Z
 
Do the expansion systems work with both the 3xx and 7xx series of Spectravideo Computers?

// Z

Supposedly, yes. You really only have to worry about the 318, 328 and 728 (MSX 1), though. I don't think anything else Spectravideo ever did was cross-compatible like that.

Here's a site that has very visual material on the most well known Spectravideo systems that actually saw wide release in various territories: http://www.samdal.com/spectravideo.htm

I also have their unrelated computer add-on for the Atari 2600, which, while limited, nevertheless functioned as a real computer: http://www.steverd.com/what26/compmate.jpg
 
Just my $.019CAN, I think the Amiga vs Atari 16-bit was the only fair fight in the hardware wars, with the contenders being pretty equally matched as to capability (including the OS's) & price. In that situation, it really became a software war to see which house could produce the most awesome apps in the shortest time (to the great benefit of the users of both systems). Of course, as Bill said, the VGA-capable PC won that battle, even though it was a non-entry.

--T
 
Just my $.019CAN, I think the Amiga vs Atari 16-bit was the only fair fight in the hardware wars, with the contenders being pretty equally matched as to capability (including the OS's) & price. In that situation, it really became a software war to see which house could produce the most awesome apps in the shortest time (to the great benefit of the users of both systems). Of course, as Bill said, the VGA-capable PC won that battle, even though it was a non-entry.

--T

Perhaps the biggest issue with all the competitive systems to the PC Compatible DOS/Windows standard was the lack of penetration into business markets. Obviously the Mac carved a sustainable niche with the graphics professional market, the ST with musicians and the Amiga with video professionals. Obviously the latter two were not big enough niches to keep those lines/companies viable. In the end though, they were both really good game machines, which is primarily what their legacies are. Of course there were a myriad of other reasons why those lines/companies faltered (marketing, lack of standardization on hard drives, etc.), but that's a topic for a different day.

Similarly, it's also no surprise why the Spectravideo and other low end systems of the time failed to catch on -- depending upon territory there were one or more entrenched options that had too much momentum and low pricing. Price/value/software depth was really marginalized as the years went on, but was important in the early to mid 80's.
 
At the time, I could never warm to Commodore due to the inferior BASIC.
Except the lack of commands for sound and graphics, the Commodore Basic is hardly inferior. ;-) It is relatively fast for being a 1 MHz 6502, and integrates very well with machine code routines. The lack of audiovisual commands was bridged with various Basic extentions, which however all ran a bit slow and too many offerings to form a standard one.

The real benefit from C= Basic however is that once you had learned all the POKEs the hard way, half your homework was done the day you decided to learn machine code. All the VIC-II, SID and video matrix addresses remained the same, unlike most other computers on which you need to set up a whole bunch of half undocumented registers to plot a pixel - stuff that Basic otherwise does for you but you'll scratch your head for a week when you want to learn it yourself.

Of course, a really fast Basic including commands for graphics, sprites, sound and music would be the ideal, but we can't have it all.. :-D
 
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